pony vs 190

[Sunka]

What is it with 190's lately,I used to always have no problem with em but the past 3 days im in a pony their catching me on deck at co alt and my gas is low,It is out climbing me co alt,and even out turning me ...and i know how to turn a pony well.Can anyone give me some quick stats? as all i have gotten killed by for two days is 190,and im getting upset about it lol,well frustrated.I never had a problem with the 190 before should it be able to do all this?Thank anyone that can help me

[Lusche]

For basic performance comparison, go here: http://www.gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php?p1=p51d&p2=190d9

You will see that the 190D is indeed a bit faster than the Pony down low, and it's a much better climber for sure. And watch that turn chart - when both planes have flaps fully deployed the 190D may have even a very slight advantage in turn radius. Though I would still consider the Pony the "better" turner because it's pilot can  start to deploy flaps at much higher speeds. But against a Dora pilot who knows how to utilize his advantage in acceleration, climb & roll rate you may find yourself in trouble.

Another word about the top speeds in general: Often players are too fixated on the absolute numbers when looking at the charts or diagrams. Always keep in mind that those speeds were reached under controlled and identical circumstances. In the virtual reality in the arenas that's rarely the case. E states do usually differ, loadout choices may affect maximum speeds and pilot skill has it's influence in matters of speed & acceleration as well. Just because your plane X is 10 mph faster than enemy's plane Y, it's not guaranteed you can outrun him every time

[Sunka]

So basically its a real uber fighter in the right hands, and a pony against a 190 the pony may be in trouble no matter what you do if the 190 stick knows his bird....urggg i was looking for a do this or do that lol.Well thank you lusche your always a big help

[Steve]

So basically its a real uber fighter in the right hands, and a pony against a 190 the pony may be in trouble no matter what you do if the 190 stick knows his bird....urggg i was looking for a do this or do that lol.Well thank you lusche your always a big help

Well if you are wondering what to do with a D9 crawling up your six, I can offer a couple of things.  I'm not sure what your after here, though.

[Sunka]

Well if you are wondering what to do with a D9 crawling up your six, I can offer a couple of things.  I'm not sure what your after here, though.

Im looking for any tactics to help with a 190.Yes one on my six is the problem

[Lusche]

So basically its a real uber fighter in the right hands, and a pony against a 190 the pony may be in trouble no matter what you do if the 190 stick knows his bird.

Well that's maybe a bit to drastically worded. If both pilots are on a similar skill level and "know what there doing" (at least a bit ) it can be a very interesting fight - It's by no means sure that the 190 will win, absolutely not. Stay agressive! Don't try to just run or climb away.

But I'm just a numbercruncher, and merely qualified to teach the running part.
I'd suggest you wing up with Steve to actually see how it's really done.

[Steve]

Im looking for any tactics to help with a 190.Yes one on my six is the problem

Well, if he has more E, the best place to have him is right on your 6. A d9 won't slow down as well as a 51. Put yourself in the shallowest of climbs. Wait til right before he gets to 600(he'll start to think about firing then). Then break left(the 51 turns better to the left).  Have your combat trim off. Don't break flat, break down some to challenge his gun solution attempt.. throttle chopped and one notch. Watch him on your 6. If he tries for a solution, pull through the turn until you see he is swinging a wider turn, keep throttle chopped and break back into him.  He's again going to think he has a gun solution and he will keep turning into you. Again, nose down to get under his solution.  A very good d9 pilot may have a snap shot here.(don't worry, there's very few).
 The instant he passes right over you break back hard left while punching WEP. He will probably break back right and be right in front of you. (BOOM)

If he goes up, judge if you have the E to get your guns on him(you probably will) and go get him.  If he goes basically straight up, pull in the flaps.  

If he goes up and over, keep the flaps out and lead turn him.  You'll be inverted  by the time you get a solution and he will be defensive.  His instinct will be to nose down.  Now you've either got a kill or a runner.

An example of breaking back into the plane is in the film in the link below. You'll see in this case I'm in a dive but not really trying to get away.  In fact, I slow down to let the bad guy catch me quicker.
 At the 1:30 mark of the film slow it down to about 33% and see what happens.  Notice I'm at two notches of flaps.

Then watch the film again from BBaw's view. again at 33% speed from about 1:25 in.  Notice on the breakback I foil his gun solution by going under  his nose. You can really see this from BBaw's view, external view.
 These moves may seem aggressive from the defensive position... they are. A lot of people don't expect a 51 to fight.  Use this, go after them.

BBaw is a very experienced pilot and you saw how this worked.  It takes some practice... but you can see the results.

http://www.mediafire.com/?r1tupeym2n4

[Sunka]

Thank you very much Steve

[Steve]

Thank you very much Steve

Any time.   

I hope the film shows you how important that little nose down in the breaks is. If you break level, you are going to give up a snapper at each cross.

[Yenny]

51 have the advantage if they both are at 300 knts +, but as you slow the 51 down. The d9 will be able to dance all over the 51, but again it's depend on the pilots. 51 vs d9 is a pretty even fight.

[Bruv119]

51 have the advantage if they both are at 300 knts +, but as you slow the 51 down. The d9 will be able to dance all over the 51, but again it's depend on the pilots. 51 vs d9 is a pretty even fight.

you'll have to show me this some time Yenny,  every 190D i've ever encounted fast or slow has been taken apart by my Pony.

[evenhaim]

51 have the advantage if they both are at 300 knts +, but as you slow the 51 down. The d9 will be able to dance all over the 51, but again it's depend on the pilots. 51 vs d9 is a pretty even fight.

No offence but you are incorrect, the pony has every advantage but acceleration and roll rate at slow speed v a dora, any horizontal fight should end in the ponys lap, especially with flaps out.

[Ghosth]

http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/files/murdr/evarevall.zip

Download the package, watch the films, see how murdr does it.

[Yenny]

you'll have to show me this some time Yenny,  every 190D i've ever encounted fast or slow has been taken apart by my Pony.

Correct, at high speed them pony flaps will tears a D9 up in a heart beat if the pony pilot knows how to use it. Even if the D9 started out on the pony's six. Once we get down low and slow, about 150-200 knts it's pretty even. If both started at that E state. The hard part is getting D9 and 51 down to that slow speed though. The fight usually end where the 51 keep its E up. Them high speed flaps make reversal so much easier =/.

[BnZ]

P-51D is the better plane in the Co-E dogfight. And that is a good thing, because it is nice that our AHII Pony to be able to whip SOMETHING in a Co-E dogfight.

On the other hand, lots of indifferent to bad pilots are flying the pony. So here is what you do. Get some alt. Find a P-51 who is "run-stanging" from the general crowd. Remember, if he is run-stanging from a D-9, he just don't know. As you run him down, use hi-yo yos and lag rolls to stay in trail. You must see the situations and use these maneuvers at the right time BEFORE you overshoot. And DO NOT EVEN THINK about taking a shot on the first break turn or three. The way you get a decent shot at him is maintaining a decent energy advantage (which DOES NOT mean closing 200mph faster...more like 50), keeping pressure and working him until he is slow. Remember, the primary factor of difficulty in a snapshot, as opposed to a tracking shot, is how fast he is moving through your glass, not the angle.

Now, if he as any alt to trade for speed, he will keep doing that to defeat your attempt to bleed his E. Thus, if he has a clue, you will probably have to work him to the deck to kill him. If it becomes obvious that this will involve being drug under all his friends, break off, its not worth it.