Waterboarding..Interrogation or Torture?(video)

[JoeA]

Just about every torture is controlled and what would that limited circumstances be?

Controlled in a manner similar to what the US was doing.  Only a select few very high ranking officials had the authority to invoke waterboarding and it was almost never done.  The CIA only did it in 3 extraordinary circumstances. 

[mechanic]

let me put it like this. If you fight for a country that uses torture for the extraction of information then you must accept you are part of the same process as those your 'team' has tortured if you should be captured. Anybody captured should expect to be beaten and killed from the start and be thankfull of any better. Even civillians caught up in a conflict are always going to be mistreated within and outside the boundries of laws and regulation by any nation or faction.
 The suffering inflicted through torture for information is not the primary evil in war or crime today and there is no way to ensure it never happens. If we cease all torture by passing even more crackpot laws and regulations then whats next?  All fight wars with blank rounds so no one gets hurt? Everyone suffers in war, thats the price we pay.

[Hazzer]

 DREDIOCK.Nice to know you support a Marxist based political and military organization like sinn fien and the IRA in their struggle against British Imperialism.

 But that's beside the point that you so conveniently missed,which is that this kind of treatment gives you spurious intelligence and creates the very thing you set out to destroy.

 John Mcain is against torture,because unlike you DREDIOCK(notwithstanding the wedgies you received at school.-you really must get over that.) the man has actually been tortured;for him it's a no brainer.

 I suggest  you are waterboarded and when you admit to terrorist act's that hitherto you could not conceive of in your wildest dreams,you do not for shame,cry for the justice you so readily are prepared to deny others.(Irish freedom fighters excepted. )

[Yeager]

If you fight for a country that uses torture for the extraction of information then you must accept you are part of the same process as those your 'team' has tortured

Oh......I dont know.  I think water boarding on high ranking AQ should be considered a worthy exemption from any moral bearing.  These animals do not fight far and should not be treated fair.

[Yeager]

this kind of treatment gives you spurious intelligence and creates the very thing you set out to destroy.

 John Mcain is against torture,because unlike you DREDIOCK(notwithstanding the wedgies you received at school.-you really must get over that.) the man has actually been tortured

The few times it (water boarding) was used are said to have generated valuable actionable data that saved "many" lives.  Thats all it did.

McCain is a politician today, and if he were given the same choices as those who made the choice to water board KSM I suspect strongly he would have put
his personal convictions aside for the greater defense of the nation.  Thats his job.   To protect the American people, not open them up to attacks of mass murder and destruction
based "soley" on a personal conviction against water boarding.  To do otherwise would be a far greater wrong than any perceived moral infraction against the barbaric islamic fanatics
sworn to kill as many Americans as possible.   

[2bighorn]

let me put it like this. If you fight for a country that uses torture for the extraction of information then you must accept you are part of the same process as those your 'team' has tortured if you should be captured. Anybody captured should expect to be beaten and killed from the start and be thankfull of any better. Even civillians caught up in a conflict are always going to be mistreated within and outside the boundries of laws and regulation by any nation or faction.
 The suffering inflicted through torture for information is not the primary evil in war or crime today and there is no way to ensure it never happens. If we cease all torture by passing even more crackpot laws and regulations then whats next?  All fight wars with blank rounds so no one gets hurt? Everyone suffers in war, thats the price we pay.

Tell that to war crimes victims. You may also start campaign to exonerate Nazis and everyone else who has been accused (wrongfully) of war crimes.
While you are at it, tell Jewish to stop whining about holocaust, because the price they paid was actually wholesale and they got off cheaply.


It starts with torture and ends with holocaust.

[Baitman]

Torture ---> Removal of rights -----> Communism

[Holden McGroin]

Torture ---> Removal of rights -----> Communism

It would not be communism if you contracted torture with competing private enterprises that had a profit motive.

The company that gets the best intel gets more money.

[bj229r]

We are debating whether an interrogation technique that leaves no sign 30 minutes later is acceptable for a group of people who have butchered and executed EVERY single one of our people who were unfortunate enough to be captured.

(aside: 1/3 of ALL allied prisoners died in Japanese captivity..."Bridge on the River Kwai" made events seem very tame, compared to reality)

In 1942, the Japanese army had recently captured more than 200,000 Allied prisoners of war and desperately needed a new supply route to support its frontline troops in Burma. Under backbreaking conditions, POWs, along with thousands of Asian laborers, were ordered to complete a railway linking Thailand and Burma that would include the infamous “bridge on the River Kwai.” After 14 grueling months of exhaustion and malnourishment, disease, bone-deep leg ulcers, and the loss of 100,000 lives, the POWs and laborers completed the 260-mile “Death Railway.”

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/zhomepage/bridge-on-the-river-kwai

[Angus]

I'd bet that if I used roughly that technique on you, you'd show non-physical signs untill you die......

[2bighorn]

We are debating whether an interrogation technique that leaves no sign 30 minutes later is acceptable for a group of people who have butchered and executed EVERY single one of our people who were unfortunate enough to be captured.

No, we are debating whether the good guys should torture, and if they do, what good does it.

(aside: 1/3 of ALL allied prisoners died in Japanese captivity..."Bridge on the River Kwai" made events seem very tame, compared to reality) http://www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/zhomepage/bridge-on-the-river-kwai

Ever heard of The International Military Tribunal for the Far East? It's not they got off scot free. Most of those criminals who survived the war were charged and prosecuted.

[bj229r]

I'd bet that if I used roughly that technique on you, you'd show non-physical signs untill you die......

Well...that's why they call it SIMulated drowning

[bj229r]

No, we are debating whether the good guys should torture, and if they do, what good does it.

Ever heard of The International Military Tribunal for the Far East? It's not they got off scot free. Most of those criminals who survived the war were charged and prosecuted.

To my knowledge, we've done it exactly three times, and they sang like canaries (with verifiably useful intel)

[mechanic]

Tell that to war crimes victims. You may also start campaign to exonerate Nazis and everyone else who has been accused (wrongfully) of war crimes.
While you are at it, tell Jewish to stop whining about holocaust, because the price they paid was actually wholesale and they got off cheaply.


It starts with torture and ends with holocaust.

In my view it does not. It starts with stealing the small kid's lunch money in the playground and ends with nuclear bombing raids or mass genocide.

[Angus]

Wholesale price?
In the Holocaust the dead jews had close to the same numbers as the state of Israel today.
But that is for a different thread anyway.
As for the three times...do you really think so....
Remember those prisons in Iraq where nothing "happened" untill it was reveiled....