Bar dar do we need (want) it????

[gwjr]

I sure this has gone around before but I really would like to see the Bar Dar gone. Now that we have NOE flight to get below radar now, but the bar dar gives us away.

Too the people say well how will we know when enemy in sector? well put up patrols like they used to do. The other option is to make it not see below 500 feet like reg radar.Make it line of site as all radar is.

Please Bar Dar Must go!!!!  
GW

[ra]

I think bar dar is meant to relect field reports of incoming aircraft.  IMHO there should be a delay of 3 minutes or so in bar dar response.  That would reflect delays in information reaching the pilot from the ground and it would allow quick low alt strikes to reach their target before the local Niki fairies knew it was coming.

ra

[Tac]

Agreed, bar dar below 500ft must go. I think it would be best if you showed up on DOT dar when NOE IF you pass within 6k of an enemy installation (factory, base, field gun, walkie-talkie equipped ninja sheep, etc). Until that happens, NOE bars should dissapear.

Heck, the sole reason of NOE is to sneak in...and when you DO sneak in you still have to fight off ack, vh and the n1k horde that ups the moment a single dot appears near the field. Long range strikes are impossible now.. if we wanted to take A12 from A22 in the minandao terrain, you need a CV or it wont happen. Yet, with NOE, a group of fighters, bombers and goons could fly the whole way in, evading the coast (to not be spotted by coastal guns) and they would still need to get alt before reaching 12...plus the planes would show in dot dar the moment they 6k NOE from field. The enemy DOES have time to react and scramble to defend the field.

[funkedup]

Is this WWII or WWIII?  WWII GCI and raid warnings were spoken, not visual.  A picture is worth a thousand words.  Please, no in-flight RADAR displays of any sort on planes that were not so equipped.  I would like to see text or voice based GCI and raid warnings.

[ 07-08-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]

[Sandman]

I'd like to see the radar go away except for in the tower. I think the BARDAR should always be available.

[Fidd]

Suppose that "bar-dar" only showed sectors where more than (say) 3 players were operating? Regualr radar would operate as normal, but if 3 aircraft went in below dar they're a bit less obvious than say 20 aircraft?

This would also solve the "lone newbie" prematurely upping on a cv/lvt raid problem...


Fidd

[GunnerCAF]

I still don't see how dar bar gives away your position?  A sector is 25 miles wide, with all the hills and graphics in Minadnao, it's even easier to hide.  

If you have some help, you can easily mask a NOE attack.  You can even travel along sector lines to mask your attack.  I have done it several times and it a challenge, but it works.

Gunner <CAF>

[Tac]

gunner, the entire idea behind a NOE attack is surprise. You will not achieve surprise by flying NOE in a sector full of your friends (that "mask" your presence according to you I believe).

Why do you think people spot CV's so easily? The moment ONE plane takes off, no matter if it stays NOE, the bar dar screams out its location. The whole idea of a fleet strike becomes useless unless the fleet is right offshore.

If 6 people want to make a noe raid on anything, and are flying through a sector that has an airfield on the very center of the sector... what do you think will happen? Enemy immediately see a big bar dar counter, no dots... a quick check on the field, dar is not smoking... oh my, what could it be? Upp the n1k horde, catch the poor saps that have been NOE for the past 10 minutes and waste them with your alt advantage.

And that is why organized NOE raids rarely accomplish anything. Remove the DAR Bar if its NOE I say  

[GunnerCAF]

Tac,

A CV group in an open sea with auto ack shooting at anything 40K or closer is not the same as a NOE attack.  People fly goons in below dar all the time without being detected.

A NOE attack works best on fields close to the front line.  I will agree with you that it would be hard to go NOE for several sectors behind the enemy line without being detected.  I don't see any fun in having radar knocked out by one person in a heavy fighter flying undetected for several sectors.  Maybe reducing icon distance of enemy aircraft under dar, like GVs, would be a better solution?

I did fly a B26 under radar undetected to an enemy field, and I did a squad mission flying under dar to a enemy airfield.  The easy part is getting to the field undetected, killing a field at low alt with ack is another problem  

Gunner <CAF>

[Pepe]

My ideal radar settings:

* No inflight dot or bar dar.

* Bar dar only shows cons over 300 ft. AGL over flat surface, 500ft. AGL over mountains. Bar dar available only over friendly territory.

* No GPS in flight. As a second best, only a dot, not the automatic bearing indicator we have today.

* Dot dar only available at tower. Dot dar information from other towers available at any tower given HQ not destroyed. Dot dar of each tower available given Radar station not destroyed, irrespect of HQ status.

* Sector size doubled. (50x50 miles minimum)

Cheers,

Pepe

[xHaMmeRx]

My thoughts....

Bar dar always over friendly territory (the original territory owned by a country at reset) to emulate the loyal population reporting in sightings. A time delay before this information appeared would be appropriate.

Bar dar always over the sectors in a rough line some distance (1 sector?) in front of the line of friendly bases to emulate reports from front line troops.

Bar dar never in "unfriendly" sectors behind the forward line of captured bases (sectors that originally belonged to the "enemy") unless passing close to a base, factory, or city that would be garrisoned...10 miles maybe? Just because you capture a base doesn't mean you captured the hearts and minds of the population!

Bar dar never in the ocean, unless the bogie is within radar range of a fleet or friendly base.  Below radar in the ocean wouldn't show up on bar dar unless bogie comes within visual range of fleet or base.

A modified dot dar showing only general location (within 5 miles or so?) and number of bogies within radar range of friendly air bases or fleets.  Not sure how to do this...maybe a faint colorization of a keypad sector within a normal sector with a number indicating how many bogies and friendlies are there. This would emulate the ground information available and wouldn't be airborne radar accurate.

No dot dar of any type once out of range of friendly bases.

At night, all bar dar goes away except for front line troops and garrisoned bases/factories/cities.  This would emulate the loyal population going to bed a night, leaving only the troops on guard to report raids.

Now, back to my other thoughts.... beaches, blondes, and beers!

HaMmeR

[whels]

Originally posted by Sandman_SBM:
I'd like to see the radar go away except for in the tower. I think the BARDAR should always be available.

Bar Dar needs to stay in MA for 1 reason right now. since there  isnt a way to set GVs diff from planes, if u turn bar dar off
for planes that means there would be no way of telling if a field is under GV assault.

untill HT has some way for a field to report its being attacked by GVs, bar dar is needed. but i do agree below minimum Radar detection hight, there should be no
Dar or Dot. but also if ur flying in enemy land, every now n then there should be a bar put up, as if u over flew a watcher or something like that, but the bar only stays on map for short time then vanishes, like a last reported POS.


look at bar dar like this too, in RL, no base is unpopulated like in AH, only time someone is at a base in AH is when its under attack. in RL u could sneak to the base but u would trigger the alarm when  u hit it. in AH u could take the ack out and troop it and no one would know u were there till capture
message.

whels

[Furious]

My useless thoughts:

-No inflight radar.
-No bardar for less than 3 planes per sector.
-Larger sectors.
-When first AI gunner fires a "colored" message alerting friendlies is sent.
-Add radar feature to the map room which has the ability to display pilot names so that verbal vectors can be given by anyone wishing to take the time to do so.

F.

9./Jg54

[Don]

Originally posted by gwjr:
I
Please Bar Dar Must go!!!!  
GW

I must disagree here.  
For many obvious reasons I prefer the bar dar. Radar plays an important part in the arena as it did in WW2. Also, due to the disease of gangbanging 2 countries versus 1, it would be a serious disadvantage to the poor hapless country in the tank that day/week to be without dar. As it is, the two countries attacking the one would send buffs over the HQ of the 1 country to kill their dar anyway.
IMO, leave it as it is, there are enough things which need to be fixed or corrected in order to effect positive gameplay, than to create another situation which would farkle gameplay up even more.

[agosling]

How about this?

Bar dar only for as long as there is an enemy plane or field within dot-distance of the aircraft. For example, we're the Knights, NOE to some field over water. If there are Rooks within vis dot distance, we show on bar dar - but only to the Rooks. If they are Bish, well, don't show them anything, Bish are evil    

The idea is, if bar dar is supposed to reflect contact reports, then make it work only when there really is a contact, and then only for the team that actually made the contact. Lose contact, lose dar bar.

This would encourage a certain amount of patrolling, and careful route planning on the part of the NOE'ers.

This would also solve the vehicle attack problem. GVs would show on dar bar as soon as they got close to the field.

[ 07-11-2001: Message edited by: agosling ]