Waffen SS Squad?

[Oldman731]

You gents have been victims of revisionist history that has done a fairly effective job of trying to paint the Waffen SS as just another branch of the German military. 

It's actually almost neo-revisionist.  The Germans did a fine job post-war convincing everyone that, while the other SS might have been bad, the Waffen SS was no different from the Wehrmacht except for their kewl uniforms and better equipment.  Typically they used Guderian's reference in his biography as support (loosely translated:  "Hey, I thought they were great and upstanding guys, because I don't want anyone to come after me for what they actually did while under my command").  It took scholars until the mid-1970s to disprove what really amounted to a colossal cover-up.  Now I guess it's back to square one.

I'm with the guy who said that it's no different from a squad named KKK.  In fact, it's far worse.

- oldman

[DaveJ]

You gents have been victims of revisionist history that has done a fairly effective job of trying to paint the Waffen SS as just another branch of the German military.  The 1st SS  Liebstandarte were Hitler's bodyguards to start.

Fanatical combat troops and very effective?  Yes.  loyalty oath to Hitler.  Yes.  Commit attrocities all over the place?  Yes.

It would be an inappropriate squad name in here.  What the Waffen SS has to do with an air combat game is beyond me.  They were not a squadron at any point.

I was just stating facts, Corky. I fully realize what alot of the front line SS troops did , which is why I don't support them as an AH squad name.

[Nutzoid]

There is little difference between having Waffen SS or the Klu Klux Klan as a squad name

Both are a group of thugs that fought for the losing side of history and have vile deeds associated with their name.

Sorry D., the KKK didn't fight at all during the Civil War. They were not a fighting unit. They weren't even formed until after the end of the war. Thugs, of course. However at first, they were something quite different from what they've become. It was when they started to adopt a more radical/evil nature, that their founder, Southern Gen. Nathan Bedford Forrest split from the organization and never had another thing to do with it.
I don't approve of their actions either, but to compare them to the SS, is well, wrong.

IMHO

[olddobe]

I really don't care about some squad flying around using Waffen SS as a name for the squad.We have Sky Pimps,Lynch Mobs,Cherry poppers,Fukntz,Pushermen,to name a few,and a lot of cpids that are inflamatory.There are German fighter and jabo squads.Maybe we should ban their squad names as well.This a flight sim,and why anyone would want to be named the Waffen SS is beyond me.
As far as the SS being cruel,there is no doubt they had some problems with fighting fair,but if you think for one minute that the allies didn't commit atrocities,you should think again.War is a very nasty business,and the idea is to make the other guy want to quit!I say let HTC call the shots,and try not to get offended by the different squad names and cpids.
Dobe

[Wingnutt]

I'm not sure this argument holds.
Dropping bombs from thousands of feet is not the same as shooting people at point blank range, mass execution style.

a dead civilian is a dead civilian, the US and brits knew they were killing civilians in the mass bombing anf firebombing raids just as the waffen SS squads (that participated as such) knew they were killing civilians aswell..

in fact, all told, and if you count the pacific theater, im pretty sure the US killed FAR more civilians than the WaffenSS did..

but the winners write the history books, so it was the SS that were evil.

[sethipus]

I'm not sure this argument holds.
Dropping bombs from thousands of feet is not the same as shooting people at point blank range, mass execution style.

Tell that to the tens of thousands of people killed in the firestorms of Dresden by those bombs.

Look, war is war, and World War II was what it was.  This game models the aircraft of World War II, including many German and Japanese planes.  I don't see the point in demonizing the German military to the point where people are suggesting that players be banned for naming themselves after units in the German military.  We've got JG11, JG7, JG6, and other Luftwaffe unit names and nobody complains, but call it the Waffen SS and suddenly players should be banned?  I don't get it, and I don't agree.

By the way, by the end of the war the Waffen SS was conscripting all sorts of people, whether they wanted to be in it or not.  My brother's friend's dad was conscripted into the Waffen SS during the last year of the war, and I am not sure he was even German.

I've seen all sorts of really stupid and offensive squad names, involving sexual innuendo and whatnot, and they seem to survive, but the Waffen SS should get players banned?

Ok, I'll agree to this one - no squad should call themselves "The Gleeful Concentration Camp Guards" or anything like that. 

[Adonai]

Does anyone else find the squad 'Waffen SS' offending?

I do and don't find Waffen SS offending Saantana. To me waffen SS stands for the "special forces" of the German army, by accounts they
were given the best equipment of the German army, but on the other hands I will not dismiss the atrocities they have commited during World War 2.
However my nickname would fall under the same argument, Adonai stands for "God" in Hebrew which in a religious way offend those who are
Jewish, but in a video game like Aces High I chose the name as my "Callsign" rather then any other meaning. Believe me if "waffen SS" or "Adonai" was offending beyond a point that I believe would offend someone I do believe the name should be changed. However as I said unless the name
is a serious "insult" to a race or what not I don't believe it would be offending.

Believe me I had enough argument's about my callsign "adonai" however the name wasn't chosen to disrespect anyone in religion, it was
given to me by a former squad mate years ago - I thought he said it meant "god of the sky" in Greek, but I learned later it meant "God" in Hebrew.

I am sure the name offends some and only answer I can give them is please do not take a video game name to be insulting unless someone directly reason to find it insulting.

[Adonai]

Just a note to anyone that read my previous post - I am not in any way trying to compare my nickname to what the Waffen SS did during
World War 2. I was simply trying to state the similarities Saantana posted about the name Waffen SS being Offensive as my nickname could be.

[Squire]

Agree with the revisionist theory. Its fashionable now (as from reading many posts) to try and have a moral equivelancy of Allied bombing to things like the gas chambers or outright murder by the SS, both the military arm, and special police units, and others.

I find them interesting as a student of history, but, and I will quote the author of "Ardennes 1944" James Arnold here:

"There appears to be a degree of misguided glamour attached to SS units, wether due to their elite status or possession of the more exotic armored hardware it is hard to say-events at Malmedy should remind wargamers of their inherent unpleasantness".

And to the question of a squad name? no, it has no place in AH2, imho.

[Delirium]

What next? A Niki squad calling themselve Unit 731?

[Murdr]

There really isn't a point in debating this topic.  There has already been a precedence made on this in the past.  Email HTC.

[RATTFINK]

There really isn't a point in debating this topic.  There has already been a precedence made on this in the past.  Email HTC.

Indeed!

[saantana]

There really isn't a point in debating this topic.  There has already been a precedence made on this in the past.  Email HTC.

It's been done.

[Guppy35]

I really don't care about some squad flying around using Waffen SS as a name for the squad.We have Sky Pimps,Lynch Mobs,Cherry poppers,Fukntz,Pushermen,to name a few,and a lot of cpids that are inflamatory.There are German fighter and jabo squads.Maybe we should ban their squad names as well.This a flight sim,and why anyone would want to be named the Waffen SS is beyond me.
As far as the SS being cruel,there is no doubt they had some problems with fighting fair,but if you think for one minute that the allies didn't commit atrocities,you should think again.War is a very nasty business,and the idea is to make the other guy want to quit!I say let HTC call the shots,and try not to get offended by the different squad names and cpids.
Dobe

I wish you guys would do two minutes of research beyond Wiki to learn a bit before you post. 

[Vudak]

Agree with the revisionist theory. Its fashionable now (as from reading many posts) to try and have a moral equivelancy of Allied bombing to things like the gas chambers or outright murder by the SS, both the military arm, and special police units, and others.

The way I look at it, is any relatives of mine that may have died during an Allied bomber attack on a city during the war were, when it boils down to it, the victims of bad luck and chance.

The relatives of mine that were killed by the Germans (or Russians, take your pick) in Poland were, OTOH, killed by deliberate action.

In my mind there's a pretty big difference between saying, "Bomb this city," and "Shoot this particular family in the head."