our "justice" system at work

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

There was absolutely no evidence of the abuse she claimed. No witnesses. No physical injuries ever seen by anyone. No reports of the abuse to anyone. They never even found any of the fantasy stuff she claimed he forced her to wear.

What they DID find was she had evidently squandered most of the family's money. And she was trying to hide it from her husband.

What it amounts to is they put the victim on trial, and the only witness against him was the murderer.

It's funny how all of the sudden, he was incredibly abusive and deserved to die, and she deserves a free pass for shooting a sleeping man in the back, ripping the phone cord out of the wall, and leaving him to die.

[Slamfire]

There was absolutely no evidence of the abuse she claimed. No witnesses. No physical injuries ever seen by anyone. No reports of the abuse to anyone. They never even found any of the fantasy stuff she claimed he forced her to wear.

What they DID find was she had evidently squandered most of the family's money. And she was trying to hide it from her husband.

What it amounts to is they put the victim on trial, and the only witness against him was the murderer.

It's funny how all of the sudden, he was incredibly abusive and deserved to die, and she deserves a free pass for shooting a sleeping man in the back, ripping the phone cord out of the wall, and leaving him to die.

She deserves the death penalty.

Now, if there was abuse beforehand, that's a separate issue - she should have called 911 the first time he supposedly hit her, left under police supervision and pressed charges.

There is absolutely no excuse for what she did.

[DREDIOCK]

Many women never tell anyone because they are to ashamed. They somehow blame themselves for the abuse. Years ago I dated 2 different women (not at the same time) who had been abused by former husbands. Both had difficulties dealing with the abuse because they felt they had brought it on themselves. If she was in fact physically abused by her husband she may very well have been to afraid/ashamed (probably both) to admit it while he still lived.

It isnt just women but men as well.

check out

"The Hidden side of Domestic Violence"
http://www.ncfmla.org/gelles.html
The most controversial finding, as it would turn out, was that the rate of adult female-to-adult male intimate violence was the same as the rate of male-to-female violence. Not only that, but the rate of abusive female-to-male violence was the same as the rate of abusive male-to-female violence.


http://depression.about.com/b/2008/05/20/battered-men-the-hidden-side-of-domestic-violence-2.htm
Often we tend to think of domestic violence as something that happens to women. Investigators at the Group Health Center for Health Studies, however, say domestic violence against men is "under-studied and often hidden".

In a study published in the June American Journal of Preventative Medicine, the researchers presented data which contradicts five commonly held misconceptions about domestic violence against men:

   1. Few men experience domestic violence. The truth is that it is more common than believed. When 400 randomly sampled men were interviewed by phone, lead researcher Dr. Robert J. Reid and his colleagues found that 5% had experienced domestic violence in the previous year, 10% in the past five years and 29% at some time during their lifetime. Domestic violence was defined as both physical abuse (slapping, hitting, kicking or forced sex) and non-physical abuse (threats, constant disparaging remarks or controlling behavior).
   2. Abuse of men has no serious effects. Even though women are more likely to be physically abused than men, the researchers found that men who were abused - even if the abuse was non-physical - suffered serious, long-term effects on their mental health. Depressive symptoms were nearly three times as common in older men who had experienced abuse than in those who had not.
   3. Abused men don't stay with their abusers. Women, especially those who have children or are financially dependent upon their husbands, often stay in abusive relationships. The expectation held, however, is that men would be better able to leave their abusers. "We were surprised to find that most men in abusive relationships also stay, through multiple episodes, for years," said Dr. Reid.
   4. Domestic violence only affects the poor. Not so, say the researchers. Their study showed that people from all walks of life are affected.
   5. Ignoring it will make it go away. Ignoring a problem does not make it go away, however, many men are ashamed to speak out about abuse because of society's expectations that men are strong and in control. The researchers found that older men were less likely to speak out about their abuse than younger men.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Accepting her claims of abuse in this case, at face value, with practically no supporting evidence at all, only cheapens the abuse defense for those who actually need it. She got what amounts to a free pass on the basis of "diminished capacity", which she claims was mostly brought on by him yelling at her. So she gets "diminished capacity" when people yell at her, and she murders them with a shotgun while they sleep. And this is a person who should have custody of three small children?

[Elfie]

She deserves the death penalty.

Now, if there was abuse beforehand, that's a separate issue - she should have called 911 the first time he supposedly hit her, left under police supervision and pressed charges.

There is absolutely no excuse for what she did.

You obviously have no clue of the effects of domestic violence on the victims.

[Elfie]

There was absolutely no evidence of the abuse she claimed. No witnesses. No physical injuries ever seen by anyone. No reports of the abuse to anyone. They never even found any of the fantasy stuff she claimed he forced her to wear.

The same things could have been said about one of the women that I mentioned earlier. She never told anyone anything until after she finally got the courage to leave him. I can't repeat some of the things he did to her here w/o getting Skuzzified. Suffice it to say that he instilled such a deep hatred in her that several years later she still would have killed him or pulled a Lorena Bobbit on him if she could have gotten away with it.

I'm not saying this particular individual is innocent/guilty in any way, I'm just pointing out that sometimes there is no evidence of the abuse, no reports to anyone etc. The shame and fear factors can be very strong.

[Elfie]

Yes Dred, the abuse does go both ways. Men however, are far less likely to report the abuse than women are.

What man wants to admit to getting beat up by a woman? 

[Shamus]

She got away with murder and now her children are in jeopardy.

shamus

[Bronk]

For all those talking about her years of abuse?
Why didn't she just up and leave when he was asleep? Hell a woman just has to claim abuse and your going to spend the night in lock up.

[dkff49]

For all those talking about her years of abuse?
Why didn't she just up and leave when he was asleep? Hell a woman just has to claim abuse and your going to spend the night in lock up.

Most of the people that I know that have been abused have tried to at least once and when their abuser finds out he either stops them or finds them and then the abuse gets worse. Thus the fear that holds them in their present situation. This also leads some of them to kill their abuser that way they can't find them and have things get worse. I myself as a child watch abuse get worse after my mother left my step-father.

I do however think that laws need to be modified to help protect people from abuse. Maybe if there are witnesses to the abuse maybe make the laws so that the police department can press charges without the abusee requesting such. Now as it standsmost abusees believe that if they press charges then the abuser will come back even worse and in alot of cases this is true. I think stiffer penalties for domestic abuse might even help.

Back to your question though I cansee how some of them would think that killing the abuser is the only way out.

I am fairly sure that those who agree with me will continue to do so and those that disagree will continue to disagree. this is not a debate that will be resolved any time soon. most people's opinions are based on past experiences and personal interppretations of events and your opinions are your right. I only ask that you bear in mind it is easier to judge what someone should or should not have done when you have never been in their shoes. This simple point goes for everyone including myself and is a proven fact.

Ii don't know if the woman that the article is about was or was not abused. She did claim such though and I was just saying that if she indeed was I can see where that would lead her to believe that she needed to take him out in order to survive and even for the well being of her children. I know I also stated "death to all wife beaters" this is a direct result off my experiences growing up and my personal feelings on the matter whether are right or wrong they are my opinion. My mother did finally get out with him still alive, but not until after a few years of trying, many police interventions where they would do nothing except ask him to leave (which left him the ability to return to do worse), and her finally running 3 hours into the next state to try and get a start for us (then) youngsters while leaving us behind because she knew he would come after her if she had taken his son (by birth).

Just keep in mind it is not always as easy to accomplish things as it is to say them.

edit: I will make this my final thought on this subject
thanks for listening

oh and in case anyone was going to ask.

Yes I think the day he tried to run her off the road should have been the day she thought about how to take him out as well. He demonstrated then that he did not care how much the risk was of injuring or killing anyone with in our family. Also to let anyone know how effective getting the law involved is, they were called and told my mother that it was her word against his and no judge would convict him of any wrong doing. They also said that us children would be effective witnesses. My mother not knowing any better believed it.

[Rich46yo]

What a softball court and judge.

Miss Prissy was pretty sharp inventing herself as a cause celeb for abuse. That'll get the Rosie Odonnell crowd on her side.

Dont say nothing stupid to the Police, get a sharp lawyer, badda bing badda boom, you get away clean for murder.

[Elfie]

For all those talking about her years of abuse?
Why didn't she just up and leave when he was asleep? Hell a woman just has to claim abuse and your going to spend the night in lock up.

One of those women I dated did in fact try to leave, he caught her and beat her for it.

The other woman, he tried to kill her one night with a karate chop to the neck. Fortunately for her, she got her arm up in time and only suffered a broken arm. The doctors didn't believe her story about falling down the stairs and refused to release her from the hospital until she told the truth. The police were called and her husband was arrested and jailed. She was then able to file for a divorce.

In both cases, it was fear of the consequences if they got caught that kept them there.

[Elfie]

Miss Prissy was pretty sharp inventing herself as a cause celeb for abuse.

You don't know that to be the case any more than I know she actually was abused.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Well, by the standard used in this case, since I sometimes raise my voice at my wife when she makes me really angry, I bought her high heeled shoes for our anniversary, and I buy here stuff from Frederick's of Hollywood 3-4  times a year, she'd be justified in shooting me tonight while I slept.

No doubt there are cases where an abused woman is forced to defend herself and/or her children. Evidence does not support that in this case.

[Rich46yo]

You don't know that to be the case any more than I know she actually was abused.

So this has great relevance right?

One of those women I dated did in fact try to leave, he caught her and beat her for it.

The other woman, he tried to kill her one night with a karate chop to the neck. Fortunately for her, she got her arm up in time and only suffered a broken arm. The doctors didn't believe her story about falling down the stairs and refused to release her from the hospital until she told the truth. The police were called and her husband was arrested and jailed. She was then able to file for a divorce.

In both cases, it was fear of the consequences if they got caught that kept them there.

I do this stuff for a living Pal. I must have gone to five domestics today alone. I dont believe this "to scared to call police" crapola. Maybe 30 years ago but not anymore. Shooting a guy in the back with a shotgun, while he was asleep? She had never reported abuse or an injury? She'd never tried to get away from him??

You don't know that to be the case any more than I know she actually was abused.

Exactly. All we have is this murderers word for it. And that aint could enough to let her get away with killing her husband in his sleep.

You think woman never lie in these domestic situations?