South Osetia under attack

[Mr No Name]

I have been wanting to knock a bear in the snot locker since I was a teen,... bring em on!

[lasersailor184]

Sometimes Hang, you're fun to have around.  I agree completely.



The PROBLEM is that America, and most countries around the world for that matter, need to be conditioned to go to war.  Wilson and FDR conditioned the american people for years through propaganda and fascistic practices to get an acceptable fighting force.  In the past several years Russia has realized that it is way too diddlying corrupt to even try democracy.  So they have been rekindling a totalitarian fascist state.  The kicker is that they are too stupid to know any better and think the only good thing they ever had was the Soviet Union.


America, will not go to a real war with no fascistic fervor behind them, ESPECIALLY when they have to so easily see their dead soldiers on the evening news.

And every time I hear a condemnation from anyone over Russia's actions, I can't help but laugh.  "Oh no!  A stern word!  What will they do next?"

[killjoy1]

Bush also has an historical imperative.  

Kuwait was attacked the same way and for the same reason (oil) when his father was president.  Will Bush Jr. come back with the same response?

I don't think so.  I would guess that a no-fly zone is a possibility and depend on the Georgians to stop the tanks.  With some real good weapons systems passed to them to do the job.  

Then wait for the diplomats.  

[Anodizer]

Sorry to sound like a pacifist(I'm not), but Jesus Christ guys!!  Do you know what you're saying??  You REALLY want a war with Russia? 
Do realize what that will do?  Do you understand who Russia's allies are?  You really think Europe will stand behind us????
Because the minute the US gets involved, that's what it will be..  United States vs. Russia and it's allies (that have ALWAYS been eager
to take a shot at the U.S., but were too afraid or weak to do it alone)..  This will NOT be WWII type combat, gents..  They will bring the war to the U.S. 

C'mon man...  War with Russia on ANY scale is suicide for Russia AND the US, possibly the entire world..  It would start small, but
in no time it would get VERY big..  Probably even go Nuclear to one extent or another..   
You do not understand the Russian mind....  Russia has no qualms about "civilian" casualties..  Russia has a
completely different outlook on humanity..  We in the west are mostly blind to this..   

Many of us still believe the Russian Military is in disarray as it was in the 90's and earlier part of the 2000's...
However, do not fool yourselves..  Russia's economy is booming....  The US had been funding Russia's disarmament..  However, there is proof that those funds were diverted to restructuring and re-arming their military with state of the art equipment..  This is no longer a military full of outdated/broken down T-64's, T-72's, older Mig-29's, and Tu-95's..  They are getting closer and closer to the US's capabilites...  And with China's help, they will surpass the US's capabilities..  AND THEY WILL BRING THE WAR TO US....

I've done much research on Russia's current military status and it is alarming..  They were/are preparing for this..  They could care less what the rest of the world thinks..  Putin is an Emperor..  He longs for Russia's (USSR's) glory days..  He's a VERY rich man and rich men long for more power, more influence..  And to be honest, to attempt to stop him will prove to be difficult..  HIS finger is STILL on the button..

You really and truly want that?  For you?  For your family?  For your kids??

Think about what you're saying....  I realize the situation..  Georgia is an ally and a key energy conduit in the region.  I am not blind to this..
It's obvious Russia has invaded to control this pipeline..  After this, Russia will have Europe by the balls..  But what else can the U.S. do without escalating the situation?  Any U.S. military action in the region will be taken as a U.S. attack on Russia's interests and believe me, Russia will not ignore it for one second..  Russia will not have a problem going Nuclear if this escalates to serious U.S. intervention(sending in troops, air power, naval power)..  That is reality..  They would have no problem even razing part of their own backyard just to rid themselves of the U.S. intervention as well as making a statement (Frak with us, and fry)..  That would be a statement to Europe as well as the rest of the world.. 
This could be it..

[lasersailor184]

Sorry to sound like a pacifist(I'm not), but Jesus Christ guys!!  Do you know what you're saying??  You REALLY want a war with Russia? 
Do realize what that will do?  Do you understand who Russia's allies are?  You really think Europe will stand behind us????
Because the minute the US gets involved, that's what it will be..  United States vs. Russia and it's allies (that have ALWAYS been eager
to take a shot at the U.S., but were to afraid to do it alone)..  This will NOT be WWII type combat, gents..  They will bring the war to the U.S. 

C'mon man...  War with Russia on ANY scale is suicide for Russia AND the US, possibly the entire world..  It would start small, but
in no time it would get VERY big..  Probably even go Nuclear to one extent or another..   
You do not understand the Russian mind....  Russia has no qualms about "civilian" casualties..  Russia has a
completely different outlook on humanity..  We in the west are mostly blind to this..   

Many of us still believe the Russian Military is in disarray as it was in the 90's and earlier part of the 2000's...
However, do not fool yourselves..  Russia's economy is booming....  The US had been funding Russia's disarmament..  However, there is proof that those funds were diverted to restructuring and re-arming their military with state of the art equipment..  This is no longer a military full of outdated/broken down T-64's, T-72's, older Mig-29's, and Tu-95's..  They are getting closer and closer to the US's capabilites...  And with China's help, they will surpass the US's capabilities..  AND THEY WILL BRING THE WAR TO US....

I've done much research on Russia's current military status and it is alarming..  They were/are preparing for this..  They could care less what the rest of the world thinks..  Putin is an Emperor..  He longs for Russia's (USSR's) glory days..  He's a VERY rich man and rich men long for more power, more influence..  And to be honest, to attempt to stop him will prove to be difficult..  HIS finger is STILL on the button..

You really and truly want that?  For you?  For your family?  For your kids??

Think about what you're saying....  I realize the situation..  Georgia is an ally and a key energy conduit in the region.  I am not blind to this..
It's obvious Russia has invaded to control this pipeline..  After this, Russia will have Europe by the balls..  But what else can the U.S. do without escalating the situation?  Any U.S. military action in the region will be taken as a U.S. attack on Russia's interests and believe me, Russia will not ignore it for one second..  Russia will not have a problem going Nuclear if this escalates to serious U.S. intervention(sending in troops, air power, naval power)..  That is reality..  They would have no problem even razing part of their own backyard just to rid themselves of the U.S. intervention as well as making a statement (Frak with us, and fry)..  That would be a statement to Europe as well as the rest of the world.. 
This could be it..

Hitler did the same thing.  They tried appeasement then, too.













Just to ruin the mood of suspense, because I'm sure you don't know...  We ended up fighting Hitler after appeasement didn't work.


Those who don't study history are doomed to repeat it.

[Anodizer]

Hitler did the same thing.  They tried appeasement then, too.










Just to ruin the mood of suspense, because I'm sure you don't know...  We ended up fighting Hitler after appeasement didn't work.


Those who don't study history are doomed to repeat it.

Ok, is there a reason for you saying this?  I am well versed in history and this is something every 4th grader knows..  Please.....No need for those kinds of remarks... 

If you see this as appeasement, you are mistaken....  It's being realistic....  It's about survival...
What's the point in getting involved if MIRV's are going to be raining down on us and making pretty mushroom clouds??
There are other ways to "fight"....  Economically, politically, etc.  And even then, it'd be difficult..  As I said, Russia's economy is booming..
Don't let their recent stockmarket drop fool you..  They have a staunch alley in China, Serbia, Iran, N. Korea, Cuba, just to name a few..  All countries close or very near to U.S. interests in those particular regions..  We have mainly Europe and a few other countries that would be "absorbed" by Russia's allies, and Europe (who probably wouldn't fight anyway since Russia will more or less have them by the balls)..

   

Also, Hitler didn't have Nukes and was not capable of carrying the fight to the U.S. or it's major interests on any major scale besides stalking its coastlines in U-boats..

Again, no need for such comments, sir....  This can be debated or discussed intelligently without baseless insults.. 

[kamilyun]

All this talk is for naught.

The next 10 days will dictate the next 3-5 decades of control over non-Arab middle east (Ukraine to Tajikistan)

US military doctrine has always provided for the US engaged in 2 major wars.  We're in Afghanistan and Iraq.  That's 1.5 wars.  The Russians have caught us pants down in the "War on Terror" and we can't /won't do chit.

Gawd I hope the Georgians can make some IED's and/or the Israelis get some anti-air missiles and anti tank missiles into Georgia ASAP.

[Elfie]

Ok, is there a reason for you saying this?  I am well versed in history and this is something every 4th grader knows..  Please.....No need for those kinds of remarks... 

If you see this as appeasement, you are mistaken....  It's being realistic....  It's about survival...
What's the point in getting involved if MIRV's are going to be raining down on us and making pretty mushroom clouds??
There are other ways to "fight"....  Economically, politically, etc.  And even then, it'd be difficult..  As I said, Russia's economy is booming..
Don't let their recent stockmarket drop fool you..  They have a staunch alley in China, Serbia, Iran, N. Korea, Cuba, just to name a few..  All countries close or very near to U.S. interests in those particular regions..  We have mainly Europe and a few other countries that would be "absorbed" by Russia's allies, and Europe (who probably wouldn't fight anyway since Russia will more or less have them by the balls)..

   

Also, Hitler didn't have Nukes and was not capable of carrying the fight to the U.S. or it's major interests on any major scale besides stalking its coastlines in U-boats..

Again, no need for such comments, sir....  This can be debated or discussed intelligently without baseless insults.. 

IF it came to blows with Russia, I seriously doubt the use of nukes by either side. To do so would bring the wrath of the entire world upon you.

[mg1942]

All this talk is for naught.

The next 10 days will dictate the next 3-5 decades of control over non-Arab middle east (Ukraine to Tajikistan)

US military doctrine has always provided for the US engaged in 2 major wars.  We're in Afghanistan and Iraq.  That's 1.5 wars.  The Russians have caught us pants down in the "War on Terror" and we can't /won't do chit.

Gawd I hope the Georgians can make some IED's and/or the Israelis get some anti-air missiles and anti tank missiles into Georgia ASAP.

lol that's nice...

Turn Georgia into a terrorist haven with Western ^TM support.

[kamilyun]

lol that's nice...

Turn Georgia into a terrorist haven with Western ^TM support.
---

It's been done before...

Who provided Stinger missile systems to the precursor Taliban in Afghanistan?

Why were we worried about our own technology shooting down our planes when we eventually went in there?

[Masherbrum]

It's been done before...

Who provided Stinger missile systems to the precursor Taliban in Afghanistan?

Why were we worried about our own technology shooting down our planes when we eventually went in there?

So few words, so much truth.   

[Hangtime]

So few words, so much truth.   

Horsepucky.

[killjoy1]

1) It would be a mistake to underestimate Russia's rearming efforts.  

2) Also the US is not capable of fighting a brutal Russian war.

3) It is also very dangerous to engage in a "limited" war.

4) ... and you can't let Russia get away with this sort of thing.

Instead of confronting Russia with weapons, I would use economic weapons.  This involves strengthening the dollar and developing an alternative to Russian controlled energy.  Strengthening the dollar means balancing the budget.  Cutting out earmarks and limiting entitlements.  But the key is alternative energy.  Would you rather spend 500 billion on war with Russia or a crash alternative energy program?  What if we built 10,000 wind turbines in the Great Plains and gave away the electricity so everyone could afford electric cars.  Or use the electricity to produce hydrogen and the whole world would come to the US for hydrogen cars.  

Take the price of oil to $25 a barrel and laugh at the Russians as they starve to death.  You can't eat oil.

 

[kamilyun]

Horsepucky.

So...we did not provide assistance to the mujahideen in Afghanistan?  We did not contribute to the Islamic ruled state?

edit:

From Wikipedia (I know..but at this hour, I don't have time or energy to go "deeper"): 

On July 3, 1979, U.S. President Carter signed a presidential finding authorizing funding for anticommunist guerrillas in Afghanistan.[3] Following the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan and installation of a more pro-Soviet president, Babrak Karmal, Carter announced, "The Soviet invasion of Afghanistan is the greatest threat to peace since the Second World War".

[Toad]

Reagan did warn about the pipeline; his warning was valid. Now Europe is dependent on Russian energy. As much or more than we depend on Arab oil.

Russia played the long game and won.

Game/Set/Match/Gold Medal to Russia. Well played.

Everyone else: Lie back and enjoy it. Or at least pretend to do so.