South Osetia under attack

[Maniac]

Georgian Reporter Tamara Urushadze shot by sniper during during live coverage.



Video link : http://www.aftonbladet.se/webbtv/nyheter/utrikes/article3103603.ab

[Hangtime]

Thats like saying deploying a brand new aircraft is provoking the Russians. The missiles are for defense only, the Russians are only being provoked because they want to be provoked.

I remember when I 'provoked' my neighbor by putting up a fence.... he escalated by chopping off the half of the tree overhanging his yard. I countered by seducing his wife... she eventually sued for a divorce and the guy moved out.

Game over.

[Nilsen]

Thats like saying deploying a brand new aircraft is provoking the Russians. The missiles are for defense only, the Russians are only being provoked because they want to be provoked.

Not so. If they think the shield will upset the balance and prevent some of the nukes they have to reach the US they will build more and perhaps deploy them elsewere. You can already see it with the Beluga? missile that they claim can avoid beeing shot down. Builiding this expencive and provocative sheild to defend from a select few rouge states that may get nukes and ballistic missiles with the range in the future is dumb imo. There are far better and cheaper ways for them to slip one by in lets say a suitcase, on a boat or whatnot.

[Hangtime]

Same yet different. In the 80s it was a cold war going and nato buildt up against the soviet union and vice versa.

After the collapse of the soviet union, Nato has continued to grow and is getting closer to russia every year. Imagine how the US would feel if Soviet had won the cold war and most of your surrounding neighbours were getting inducted into the Soviet union by the year. Placing missile shields and whatnot closer and closer. Would you be getting desperate and feel squeezed more and more or just shrug it off with a smile?

My personal opinion after beeing a Nato advocate my entire life is that Nato should have been disbanded after the collapse of the Soviet union. I may be alone in feeling this here but i dont mind that

Jeeze, Nils; NATO is a threat ONLY to aggression... if Russia is not aggressive, why should they be concerned? What.. they're afraid of a NATO first strike? Laughable.

[Nilsen]

Georgian Reporter Tamara Urushadze shot by sniper during during live coverage.

(Image removed from quote.)

Video link : http://www.aftonbladet.se/webbtv/nyheter/utrikes/article3103603.ab

what side did the shooting?

[Stoney]

Found this timeline on the Australian Broadcasting Corporation News website:  http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/08/10/2330218.htm

July 4: South Ossetia orders a "general mobilisation" of its forces and threatens to use heavy weapons against Georgia after two people are killed in intense shelling. Russia accuses Georgia of an "act of aggression".

July 9-10: US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice visits Georgia and calls for an end to violence in Abkhazia and South Ossetia. Russia admits its planes have flown over South Ossetia to avoid "bloodshed".

August 1: Six people are killed in South Ossetia by fire from Georgian positions, according to the government of the rebel region. Tbilisi (Georgia's capital) says the Ossetians were the first to fire.

August 3: Russia warns South Ossetia is close to a "large-scale" military conflict, and that Georgian manoeuvres are undermining hopes of peace.

August 4: South Ossetia evacuates hundreds of children to Russia following clashes. Georgia accuses the rebels of creating "an illusion of war".

August 5: A top Russian diplomat says Moscow will not just stand by, but will defend Russian citizens in South Ossetia in the event of a conflict.

August 6: Georgia and South Ossetia accuse each other of having opened fire on villages in the region.

August 7: Georgia says Georgian and South Ossetian officials agree to hold direct talks for the first time in a decade after clashes leave around 10 dead.

August 8: Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili says most of South Ossetia has been "liberated" in an overnight offensive.

Russia sends reinforcements into the territory, saying Georgian attacks killed more than 10 of its peacekeepers.


Tense history

The two countries have a history of hostility and conflict.

November 1989 South Ossetia declares autonomy from the Georgian Soviet Socialist Republic, triggering three months of fighting.

December 1990 Georgia and South Ossetia begin a new armed conflict which lasts until 1992.

1991: The Soviet Union collapses and Georgia, which was absorbed into the Russian empire in the 19th century, then taken over by the Soviet Bolsheviks in the next century, becomes independent.

1992-4: Minority ethnic groups in the provinces of South Ossetia and Abkhazia fight separatist wars to end Georgian rule, resulting in thousands of deaths. Both rebel statelets have significant Russian financial and political backing, but have not been recognised by any foreign government and officially remain part of Georgia.

November 1993 South Ossetia drafts its own constitution.

1994: Under a shaky ceasefire agreement, a mainly Russian peacekeeping force is deployed in Abkhazia. Russian troops also lead a joint peacekeeping force in South Ossetia.

November 1996 South Ossetia elects its first president.

2000: Russia's new president, Vladimir Putin, imposes visa requirements on Georgians going to Russia, unlike citizens from other countries in the 12-member Commonwealth of Independent States.

2002: After repeated accusations by Russia that Georgia is sheltering Chechen rebels, an air raid takes place on the Pankisi Gorge just inside Georgia. Russia denies being behind the attack, which killed one person.

Georgia applies to join the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation (NATO), angering Russia. Georgia also becomes a key US ally after agreeing to host oil and gas pipelines from the Caspian Sea to Turkey, avoiding Russia.

2003: The peaceful "Rose Revolution" ousts Georgian president Eduard Shevarnadze and brings to power Mikheil Saakashvili, who immediately launches a strongly pro-Western policy aiming at NATO membership and economic and governmental reforms.

2005: Despite growing tensions with Mr Saakashvili's government, Moscow agrees to remove Soviet-era military bases from Georgian territory by the end of 2008.

2006: Georgia is briefly left with severe gas shortages after a pipeline explosion inside Russia destroys a key export route. Those behind the bombing are never discovered.

Georgia arrests four Russian military personnel on spying charges. Moscow responds with sweeping economic sanctions, cutting all travel links, deporting hundreds of ethnic-Georgians from Russia, and stopping Georgian imports.

November 2006 South Ossetia overwhelmingly endorses its split with Tbilisi in a referendum. Georgia's prime minister says this is part of a Russian campaign to stoke a war.

April 2007 Georgia's parliament approves a law to create a temporary administration in South Ossetia, raising tension with Russia.

June 2007 South Ossetian separatists say Georgia attacked Tskhinvali with mortar and sniper fire. Tbilisi denies this.

October 2007 Talks hosted by the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe between Georgia and South Ossetia break down.

March 2008 South Ossetia asks the world to recognise its independence from Georgia following the West's support for Kosovo's secession from Serbia.

March 2008 Georgia's bid to join NATO, though unsuccessful, prompts Russia's parliament to urge the Kremlin to recognise the independence of South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

April 2008 South Ossetia rejects a Georgian power-sharing deal, insists on full independence.

Looks like a fairly complex and muddled situation.

[Maniac]

what side did the shooting?

They dont know yet.

[john9001]

if there is war it will not be between USA and russia, it will be between russia and NATO and the former slave states in eastern europe, there is no love for russia in europe, and then there is china looking at the russian resources in siberia.

[Stoney]

Georgian Reporter Tamara Urushadze shot by sniper during during live coverage.

(Image removed from quote.)

Video link : http://www.aftonbladet.se/webbtv/nyheter/utrikes/article3103603.ab

Perhaps this explains the poor media coverage of this whole situation...

[Nilsen]

Jeeze, Nils; NATO is a threat ONLY to aggression... if Russia is not aggressive, why should they be concerned? What.. they're afraid of a NATO first strike? Laughable.

You are seeing it from your side of the fence. Imagine if the map was red all around the US and not blue. The soviet union was also a threat only to aggression. Perhaps laughable to you.

[Elfie]

Not so. If they think the shield will upset the balance and prevent some of the nukes they have to reach the US they will build more and perhaps deploy them elsewere. You can already see it with the Beluga? missile that they claim can avoid beeing shot down. Builiding this expencive and provocative sheild to defend from a select few rouge states that may get nukes and ballistic missiles with the range in the future is dumb imo. There are far better and cheaper ways for them to slip one by in lets say a suitcase, on a boat or whatnot.

Why does a defensive system upset the balance of power unless Russia has plans to use nukes? The missiles being stationed in Eastern Europe can't shoot down missiles launched from Russia. As I recall from an article I read when this was being discussed earlier, the missile defense missiles have to be launched during certain flight phases of the enemy missiles in order to be effective. The missiles stationed in Europe won't be able to shoot down missiles launched from Russia.

That Russian missile you are talking about, is I believe the Topol-7. The development of the Topol-7 began in the late '80's. The arms race never ended, it may have slowed down for awhile, but it certainly is not new.

[Hangtime]

I saw additional footage.. A georgian news crew filming a Russian armor column, up walks a separatist squad which proceeds to rob the Georgians at gunpoint. The passing russians do nothing. The camera man tried to get way... you could hear shots fired, the camera falls to the ground.

More and more of this coverage shows russian 'peacekeepers' doing nothing to curb the utter destruction, rape, robbery, murder and looting being conducted by 'osset' units in georgian towns and villages.

Typical Russian operation.

[Elfie]

I remember when I 'provoked' my neighbor by putting up a fence.... he escalated by chopping off the half of the tree overhanging his yard. I countered by seducing his wife... she eventually sued for a divorce and the guy moved out.

Game over.

While I don't agree with seducing the guys wife, the way you put it is certainly funny. 

[Hangtime]

The soviet union was also a threat only to aggression. Perhaps laughable to you.

Extremely.

[Elfie]

what side did the shooting?

I would hazard a guess and say it wasn't the Georgians......