Author Topic: South Osetia under attack  (Read 117323 times)

Offline Masherbrum

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Re: South Osetia under attack
« Reply #885 on: August 14, 2008, 10:43:01 PM »
"the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group"

USAC's B17 deliberate and systematically bombed German cities  = genocide of Germans
USAF's B52 deliberate and systematically bombed Vietnam cities = genocide of Vietnamese.

As you can see....argument by definition can take you very far...

Checkmate:

       When the Red Army captured the right-bank Warsaw, the Soviet offensive was abruptly stopped, while the Germans went on to ruthlessly suppress the uprising. Although the insurgency, planned to last 48 hours, held out for 63 days, eventually the Home Army fighters were forced to capitulate. They were transported to the POW camps in Germany, while the entire civilian population was expelled. Hitler, ignoring the negotiated terms of the capitulation, ordered the entire city to be razed to the ground, and the library and museum collections robbed or burned. When on 17 January 1945 the Soviets crossed the Vistula and entered through the left-bank, they found a Warsaw that had almost ceased to exist; 85% of the city had been destroyed, including the historic Old Town and the Royal Castle. The surviving Home Army fighters were rounded up by the Russian secret police NKVD and either murdered or deported to Siberia.


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Offline Elfie

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Re: South Osetia under attack
« Reply #886 on: August 14, 2008, 10:44:10 PM »
Can Russian or anyone else point out how that news clip he (Russian) linked is a Fox News source? I honestly wasn't seeing any reference to Fox News.
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Offline Russian

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Re: South Osetia under attack
« Reply #887 on: August 14, 2008, 10:52:39 PM »
Another round of insults...  This is pointless.

Offline mensa180

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Re: South Osetia under attack
« Reply #888 on: August 14, 2008, 10:58:07 PM »
I have tried to remain unbiased while reading this thread, but I don't understand your reason for dodging Elfie and Hangtime's questions.  If it is so obvious, or maybe not so, that the links were related to Fox... just point it out, what is the benefit of beating around the bush?
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Offline Elfie

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Re: South Osetia under attack
« Reply #889 on: August 14, 2008, 11:02:40 PM »
I have tried to remain unbiased while reading this thread, but I don't understand your reason for dodging Elfie and Hangtime's questions.  If it is so obvious, or maybe not so, that the links were related to Fox... just point it out, what is the benefit of beating around the bush?

Maybe you can help Mensa since Russian seems to have bailed out on us.

This is the link he gave for a Fox News video.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=170_1218723201


(I can't believe you read all 36 pages of this Mensa! :D )
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Offline Hangtime

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Re: South Osetia under attack
« Reply #890 on: August 14, 2008, 11:10:24 PM »
Hi Elfie..

Just ran it again... it appears to be in fact, a Fox news piece. I recognize the talking head, and the FOX News label is on the screen, lower left. I don't usually watch Fox, but this guy I've seen before. I have zero confidence in the guys veracity in reporting the situation; he calls 'em georgians; for all I know he could be mis-identifying the folks shooting at him. Could be ossets, I just don't know. Maybe they watch Fox too. ;)

Now, I have no clue if this ran on Fox here... and in my opinion, Fox is not my first, second or third choice for a reliable source.. simply because I've seen bias in thier presentation of news is slanted very pro-administration... again, my personal opinion.

here's the link again.. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=170_1218723201

I saw a piece on CNN from Michael Ware... this guy I trust. What he has to say is chilling... and I accept it as accurate based on his reporting from Iraq.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2008/08/14/ware.gori.road.russian.control.cnn?iref=videosearch

Hope this helps..

Steve

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Offline Elfie

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Re: South Osetia under attack
« Reply #891 on: August 14, 2008, 11:19:24 PM »
Hi Elfie..

Just ran it again... it appears to be in fact, a Fox news piece. I recognize the talking head, and the FOX News label is on the screen, lower left. I don't usually watch Fox, but this guy I've seen before. I have zero confidence in the guys veracity in reporting the situation; he calls 'em georgians; for all I know he could be mis-identifying the folks shooting at him. Could be ossets, I just don't know. Maybe they watch Fox too. ;)

Now, I have no clue if this ran on Fox here... and in my opinion, Fox is not my first, second or third choice for a reliable source.. simply because I've seen bias in thier presentation of news is slanted very pro-administration... again, my personal opinion.

here's the link again.. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=170_1218723201

I saw a piece on CNN from Michael Ware... this guy I trust. What he has to say is chilling... and I accept it as accurate based on his reporting from Iraq.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2008/08/14/ware.gori.road.russian.control.cnn?iref=videosearch

Hope this helps..

Steve



Since I don't watch news on the tv (Fox or anyone else) I was not aware that the logo in the lower left was in fact, a Fox News logo or that the talking head was associated with Fox. Well, I will admit to watching CNN for hours and hours on 9/11, but only if you twist my arm really hard.  :devil

Thanks, dunno why this was so difficult for Mr. Russian.   :huh
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Offline FrodeMk3

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Re: South Osetia under attack
« Reply #892 on: August 14, 2008, 11:22:50 PM »
Sorry for my outburst, but some members need to realize that I'm still a human and just because I share a slightly different view point - you don't need to treat me as hostile. Cool the frak down and communicate like you're for a western nation and not some raghead dirtbag that enjoys to cut heads off when people think differently.


So to you, Russia is still Soviet and still communist? Did you sleep in 90s and missed 'minor' change? Russia = Russian Federation = socialist / democratic (What-ever-else it is).

I was gonna let this go, because it looked like the conversation had moved past it. But, the veiled insults' in your post demand that I answer you with this; First of all, YOU have put at least one post, maybe more, that could have shut this whole thread down, and destroyed any discussion we had with it. IMHO, the Histrionics' have come from your side of the computer screen. Russian, I do know that you are by yourself in this. It's almost like Boroda got this whole thing going, and when you jumped in on his side to help argue your cause...he scampered, leaving you stone-cold alone. However, this discussion is most heated because it IS happening right now. Everyone's gone nationalist in less than a week. You should know something though...the way this has happened, with Russia advancing farther than any 'peacekeeping' force should have (If you remember in Gulf War I, after pushing Saddam out of Kuwait, Coalition forces that actually did cross into Iraq came right back out. The whole ground war was 100 hours, entry-to-exit.)

The Russian army is still in areas' that it is not supposed to be according to the treaty a week later. This, even your own news doesn't refute.

And secondly, as to the little barb about Russia is still Soviet, and Russians' are still communists? I believe the discussion was about the Katyn forest in 1939. That's more than a little bit pre-Glasnost.


Offline mensa180

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Re: South Osetia under attack
« Reply #893 on: August 14, 2008, 11:24:57 PM »
Elfie, there are now 60 pages on my end, you must have changed posts per page. 

Yes, I have been avidly keeping up with this thread.  I missed the Cold War, it ended around the time I was born, this to me is almost like reliving history, and at the same time seeing it created.  It's very interesting and I plan on continuing to watch you all post :).
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Offline Hangtime

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Re: South Osetia under attack
« Reply #894 on: August 14, 2008, 11:27:45 PM »
Since I don't watch news on the tv (Fox or anyone else) I was not aware that the logo in the lower left was in fact, a Fox News logo or that the talking head was associated with Fox. Well, I will admit to watching CNN for hours and hours on 9/11, but only if you twist my arm really hard.  :devil

Thanks, dunno why this was so difficult for Mr. Russian.   :huh

Didja run the CNN piece by Ware...?  The 'explosions heard in Gori' I think I can explain... he suggested disposal of seized  munitions. Makes no sense.. the georgians, ossets and russians use the same munitions. It's more like he's hearing the destruction of the city...  when the russians secured Grozny in Chechnya they began dynamiting every building in the city... utter destruction. They started with the government buildings and proceeded to level every single commercial building and then methodically started on the apartment houses.

Chilling.

Sends the strongest message possible... and this is how the russians 'pacified' chechnya.
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Offline Elfie

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Re: South Osetia under attack
« Reply #895 on: August 14, 2008, 11:33:50 PM »
Didja run the CNN piece by Ware...?  The 'explosions heard in Gori' I think I can explain... he suggested disposal of seized  munitions. Makes no sense.. the georgians, ossets and russians use the same munitions. It's more like he's hearing the destruction of the city...  when the russians secured Grozny in Chechnya they began dynamiting every building in the city... utter destruction. They started with the government buildings and proceeded to level every single commercial building and then methodically started on the apartment houses.

Chilling.

Sends the strongest message possible... and this is how the russians 'pacified' chechnya.

I watched the vid you linked.....and you are correct that it makes no sense to dispose of any munitions since all three participants use the same stuff. Let's hope we aren't seeing a repeat of Grozny in Gori. Although I have to say I am not hopeful that Gori will be spared. (I had to restart my browser though cuz it locked up on me after the vid was done though.)
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Offline Elfie

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Re: South Osetia under attack
« Reply #896 on: August 14, 2008, 11:39:30 PM »
Elfie, there are now 60 pages on my end, you must have changed posts per page. 

Yes, I have been avidly keeping up with this thread.  I missed the Cold War, it ended around the time I was born, this to me is almost like reliving history, and at the same time seeing it created.  It's very interesting and I plan on continuing to watch you all post :).


I think I did change that setting.

I grew up in the middle of the Cold War. These events and the politics surrounding them are eerily similar to the Cold War. Heck, I did my service time during the Reagan era and all our training involved scenarios of fighting the USSR and the Warsaw Pact. The load crews I worked with and was a part of all took extreme pride in how fast we could reload fighters with munitions and we were always bummed that we had to manually remove those munitions instead of the pilots going and using them on the commies.  :D
Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline moot

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Re: South Osetia under attack
« Reply #897 on: August 15, 2008, 03:07:04 AM »
Russian you really ought to walk this discussion thru completely.  Being in the US service, you're bound to have to settle it sooner or later when you run into other Hangtimes and Eflies, etc. Not having an answer the next time you're put up against these arguments may not be as negligible as pixels on a forum.
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Offline Vulcan

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Re: South Osetia under attack
« Reply #898 on: August 15, 2008, 05:07:18 AM »
So tonight on the news the russian commander holding Gori  was happily telling the BBC he's ready to roll on the georgian capital.

So theSoviet Uni... eerrr I mean Russians think that a minority wanting independence in a country is a good reason to invade huh?

Offline Dowding

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Re: South Osetia under attack
« Reply #899 on: August 15, 2008, 05:14:46 AM »
Quote
So theSoviet Uni... eerrr I mean Russians think that a minority wanting independence in a country is a good reason to invade huh?

What is good enough for Hitler is good enough for Putin, Comrade.

South Ossetia is the new Sudetenland. Georgia is the new Czechoslovakia.
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