Perk

[RMrider]

Valid point. 

But then whose to say if people are that interested then why cant we unperk the 262 or tempest?

 

[Vudak]

Valid point. 

But then whose to say if people are that interested then why cant we unperk the 262 or tempest?

 

Two-part short answer?  Because you don't die in those planes unless you want to, and variety is a good thing

[Kev367th]

OK forget the XVI tag.

Performance wise it is a 1943 LF IX, only differences -

1) 50 cals instead of LF IX .303s (majority of kills with the Hispanos anyway)
2) Motor manufactured in the US (Merlin 266) instead of UK (Merlin 66)

If you perk the XVI theres plenty others that should be perked also.

[SD67]

Spixteens have very fragile wings... one ping and they're gone.

[Masherbrum]

Has a heavier armament, turns better, climbs better, and is faster than most planes in the arena, and it is extremely easy to fly. More grounds to perk it than the Spitfire MkXIV certainly.

The La7 isn't flown correctly enough to say "it's easy to fly."   95% of the time they haven't a clue of it's capabilities.    If the fuel range was increased then I'd say sure, Perk it.   But that is part of the challenge currently, fighting but making damn sure you watch the state of your fuel.   More so than many cartoon planes we have to choose from. 

[BnZ]

is faster than most planes in the arena, and it is extremely easy to fly. More grounds to perk it than the Spitfire MkXIV certainly.

I don't know where the Spit16 stands in absolute rank in top speed, but most all late-war planes that can't dogfight the Spit16 on more or less equal terms have a speed advantage over it, and thus can engage and disengage at will. This is a different situation than with say, the La7, which is why I would argue that the La7 needs a light perk price while with the Spixteen, well, let's just say I'm not sure. One must also consider the that the Spit8 has almost the same performance as the 16...

Most all arguments for unperking the Spit14 involve comparing it to the Spit16, and end up being really good arguemen ts for perking the 16. 

But seriously, most everybody will state something to the effect "The Spit16 can out-dogfight the Spit14 in a duel at typical MA alts." However, you could use the same argument for the Tempest, a Spit16 is a better dueller, therefore the Tempest should be unperked. But there are other factors, now aren't there?

The MA is not about duelling. The Spit14 does not HAVE to be able to out-dogfight the 16, it can engage and disengage from it at will. The Spit14 has a deck speed of 361 mph. This is a scant 7 mph less than the P-51D. And this only improves as you get higher. With its combination of turn, climb, AND speed, unperked Spit14 would totally outclass the other LW high-speed E fighters (P-51s, Jugs, 190s, 109Gs and K, etc) in the MA and render many of them as obsolete at medium-high alts as the La7 has at low alts,  only worse. The La7 faces range restrictions the 14 doesn't, and the deadlier pilots just don't seem to fly La7s very often.

[Motherland]

The La7 isn't flown correctly enough to say "it's easy to fly."   95% of the time they haven't a clue of it's capabilities.    If the fuel range was increased then I'd say sure, Perk it.   But that is part of the challenge currently, fighting but making damn sure you watch the state of your fuel.   More so than many cartoon planes we have to choose from. 

Wasn't talking about the La7, I was talking about the Spitfire MkXVI. I agree with you 100% on the La7.

[Motherland]

I don't know where the Spit16 stands in absolute rank in top speed, but most all late-war planes that can't dogfight the Spit16 on more or less equal terms have a speed advantage over it, and thus can engage and disengage at will. This is a different situation than with say, the La7, which is why I would argue that the La7 needs a light perk price while with the Spixteen, well, let's just say I'm not sure. One must also consider the that the Spit8 has almost the same performance as the 16...

Most all arguments for unperking the Spit14 involve comparing it to the Spit16, and end up being really good arguemen ts for perking the 16. 

But seriously, most everybody will state something to the effect "The Spit16 can out-dogfight the Spit14 in a duel at typical MA alts." However, you could use the same argument for the Tempest, a Spit16 is a better dueller, therefore the Tempest should be unperked. But there are other factors, now aren't there?

The MA is not about duelling. The Spit14 does not HAVE to be able to out-dogfight the 16, it can engage and disengage from it at will. The Spit14 has a deck speed of 361 mph. This is a scant 7 mph less than the P-51D. And this only improves as you get higher. With its combination of turn, climb, AND speed, unperked Spit14 would totally outclass the other LW high-speed E fighters (P-51s, Jugs, 190s, 109Gs and K, etc) in the MA and render many of them as obsolete at medium-high alts as the La7 has at low alts,  only worse. The La7 faces range restrictions the 14 doesn't, and the deadlier pilots just don't seem to fly La7s very often.

You're REALLY overestimating the Spitfire MkXIV.
The only thing the 14 has over the 16 at MA altitudes, if you define this is the deck to 20k, is speed. And even at that, the 14 is 10-20mph faster from 0-20k. Even in climb, there's only a brief window from 8-10k where the 14 actually out climbs the 16, and from 12-18k the 16 actually outclimbs the 14. At other altitudes the climb rate is pretty much equal.

Furthermore, it does not 'totally outclass' other LW fighters. It is neck & neck with the P51D and P47N, and slower than the 109K and 190D until high altitudes. Comparing it to the 109K specifically, the only non-Spitfire really similar to the 14, The 109K and the 14 are almost equal at all altitudes beside a stretch from 12-20k where the 109K beats the 14 by almost 1000 FPM. The 14 accelerates slightly faster and turns slightly better than the 109K, however, it has that huge prop that makes the aircraft fairly hard to handle.

[angelsandair]

Spit XIV is a 109K4 with 2 20mms and 2 .50s. 

[BnZ]

It totally outclasses CERTAIN other LW planes, not all of them, but enough that I think it needs to retain a perk As is typical, you are arguing for the Spit14 to be unperked by comparing it to a Spit16. To me you are making a far better argument for perking the Spit16 than for UN-perking the 14.


 The Spit14 DOES totally outclass the such planes as the Pony, Jug, and 190* in all respects except speed low alt speed. It can catch all of them easily with some alt to convert into speed, and then out-turn, outclimb, and out-accelerate them.

*(BTW, the 190 is not really a 375mph fighter on the deck most of the time...because its fuel-hungry engine generally calls for a drop-tank. The center line rack slows the top deck speed down to 369.)

As for the 109K, it IS the most competitive vs. the Spit14, although I think the Spit will still win a "duel" given equal pilots. If the Kurt did not have such bad views, hard to use gun, and dive limitations, I would say it also needs to be perked, these weaknesses justify its unperked status IMO. The Spit14, along with its excellent speed/turn ratio, has one of the best gun packages, good visibility, and can pull out of a high-speed dive without elevator compression.

You're REALLY overestimating the Spitfire MkXIV.
The only thing the 14 has over the 16 at MA altitudes, if you define this is the deck to 20k, is speed. And even at that, the 14 is 10-20mph faster from 0-20k. Even in climb, there's only a brief window from 8-10k where the 14 actually out climbs the 16, and from 12-18k the 16 actually outclimbs the 14. At other altitudes the climb rate is pretty much equal.

Furthermore, it does not 'totally outclass' other LW fighters. It is neck & neck with the P51D and P47N, and slower than the 109K and 190D until high altitudes. Comparing it to the 109K specifically, the only non-Spitfire really similar to the 14, The 109K and the 14 are almost equal at all altitudes beside a stretch from 12-20k where the 109K beats the 14 by almost 1000 FPM. The 14 accelerates slightly faster and turns slightly better than the 109K, however, it has that huge prop that makes the aircraft fairly hard to handle.

[Karnak]

Most all arguments for unperking the Spit14 involve comparing it to the Spit16, and end up being really good arguemen ts for perking the 16. 

All of my arguments to unperk the Spitfire Mk XIV had to do with it's lack of use and lack of success compared to every other perk plane, and lack of success compared to some free planes (the Spitfire Mk XVI was not one of them) so saying most of the arguments for unperking it are based on the Mk XVI is flat out wrong.

Some people keep posting that, but the same argument repeated multiple times is still just one argument.


EDIT:

BnZ,

Go use the Mk XIV some and come back.  You talk as someone who thinks they know how it handles and you really don't.

If the Fw190D-9 isn't really a 375mph fighter because of a thirsty engine, then the Mk XIV which guzzles even faster can't be considered a 358mph fighter.

The F4U-1A is slightly faster and turns better than the Mk XIV.  The Bf109K-4 is very close in turning, has twice the WEP and is much easier to handle at low speeds.  The La-7 is much faster, turns as well and has good visibility.  The P-51D is faster and has better visibility.  All of them are significantly tougher than the Spitfire as, so far as I can tell, Spitfires are the most fragile aircraft in the game wingwise.

[VansCrew1]

And roll rate...
Just took out a Spitfire MkXVI for the first time in forever... 4 kills no effort...

Thought of another one. When you pull back left and rudder left that non-realistic(witch i might add would kill the pilot because of the positive and negative "G"'s that are being pulled) spin people do to get you off there six.

[SD67]

Aerobatic pilots do snap rolls all the time.
I read somewhere an account of a pilot using such a manoeuvre to edvade a German fighter in WWII. He blacked out but he survived.

[VansCrew1]

Aerobatic pilots do snap rolls all the time.
I read somewhere an account of a pilot using such a manoeuvre to edvade a German fighter in WWII. He blacked out but he survived.

I know what a snap roll is. And what people do in the spit16's dose not look like a snap roll to me, it could be possibly.

[BnZ]

All of my arguments to unperk the Spitfire Mk XIV had to do with it's lack of use and lack of success compared to every other perk plane, and lack of success compared to some free planes (the Spitfire Mk XVI was not one of them) so saying most of the arguments for unperking it are based on the Mk XVI is flat out wrong.

Some people keep posting that, but the same argument repeated multiple times is still just one argument.

Karnak,
Correct, that is the other argument, but comparisons to the Spixteen are always made as well.

Whether people favor an airplane or use it well is irrelevant. The airplane's potential is the point. By standard of popularity, the P-51 should command a perk price and the Ki-84 should have eny of 25 or so.

I suspect a good deal of the problem with the Spit14's K/D ratio is that is likely the perk plane most likely to be chosen by the inexperienced and then flown like all other spits. And since it is NOT all other Spits, that ends badly.

BnZ,



If the Fw190D-9 isn't really a 375mph fighter because of a thirsty engine, then the Mk XIV which guzzles even faster can't be considered a 358mph fighter.

My point was that the center rack on the 190 slows it down to Pony-type speed even after the tank is jettisoned. Does the Spit14 experience a similar slowdown even after the slipper tank is jettisoned?

The F4U-1A is slightly faster and turns better than the Mk XIV.  The Bf109K-4 is very close in turning, has twice the WEP and is much easier to handle at low speeds.  The La-7 is much faster, turns as well and has good visibility.  The P-51D is faster and has better visibility.  All of them are significantly tougher than the Spitfire as, so far as I can tell, Spitfires are the most fragile aircraft in the game wingwise.

So the F4U-1A is faster than a Spit14 running on WEP? And I assume you mean on the deck, not at slightly higher alts.

Good argument for perking the La-7! Sir, I agree and salute you.

 Although I will point out the La has tragic range, worse guns, an elevator that gets stiff in the 400s, and its performance only gets worse with alt.

I have flown the Spit14 only a little in duels. I do not believe it handles worse than the K4, but I will do further testing.

The P-51D is absolutely outclassed by the Spit14. It can run away low, if the Spit14 doesn't have an E advantage to close the distance with, that is about it. And hordes of unperked Spit14s in the MA would force P-51s, Jugs, P-38s, etc, down out of the slightly higher alts where they are not as disadvantaged against the La7 and other monsters as they are down in the weeds.

<S>