Author Topic: Shermans!  (Read 2638 times)

Offline TheMan

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Shermans!
« on: August 08, 2008, 11:44:04 AM »
Hello everyone , I would like to bring up the topic of the sherman. Over the past few days ive been doing nothing but gv'n with friends on the game. And it has come to my attention that the shermans armor is very over modeled. The round of a panzer should be able to 1 hit a sherman every time no questions asked. Yet it takes 2 to 3 rounds to kill him , if your first shots aren't ricocheted. Normally I wouldnt bother posting this but since the new patch is coming out very soon , I thought id mention it and hope Hitech Creations fix the sherman.   


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« Last Edit: August 08, 2008, 12:31:09 PM by TheMan »

Offline SuBWaYCH

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Re: Shermans!
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2008, 11:50:24 AM »
We have a Sherman VC Firefly, not the Sherman M4. The one we have has better armor and a MUCH better gun. (British 17 pounder) It can take rounds from a Panzer IV.
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Offline Motherland

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Re: Shermans!
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2008, 11:57:50 AM »
To be honest on the rare occasion that I'm actually tanking I usually kill Fireflies within 1-2 hits the the front plate.

Offline Bronk

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Re: Shermans!
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2008, 11:59:15 AM »
See Rule #4

Offline Lusche

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Re: Shermans!
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2008, 12:02:26 PM »
The poster seems to confuse the Panzer IV with a Tiger.

Panzer IV's weren't that kind of uber-tanks guarranteed to kill a Sherman, especially not at longer rangers.  Neither were  Sherman as weakly armored as a common myth seems to indicate...
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Offline humble

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Re: Shermans!
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2008, 12:08:14 PM »
Hello everyone , I would like to bring up the topic of the sherman. Over the past few days ive been doing nothing but gv'n with friends on the game. And it has come to my attention that the shermans armor is very over modeled. The round of a panzer should be able to 1 hit a sherman every time no questions asked. Yet it takes 2 to 3 rounds to kill him , if your first shots aren't ricocheted. Normally I wouldn't bother posting this but since the new patch is coming out very soon , I thought id mention it and hope Hitech Creations fix the sherman.   


See you on the battle fields Rondar. :rock



This statement illustrates just how strong the misconceptions about armor are on the "stock" sherman.

The M4 had some significant shortcomings however it also had some strengths. The stock gun tube was a was a low velocity 75mm. This came about due to two converging issues. 1st the artillery service had a lot of sway over procurement and the original high velocity tube had a short life span so it wanted a longer life lower velocity tube. 2nd US doctrine envisioned a fluid battlefield where specific anti tank (Tank Destroyer) units engaged enemy armor while US tanks acted primarily in a infantry support role...hence the pitiful 75mm.

This created some significant issues in tactics, forcing the M4's to almost suicidal point blank range in tank on tank engagements. The design also suffered from a high profile compared to other tanks.

However...

The Sherman had a 46 degree slope on its frontal armor, this is almost optimal and predated the panthers sloped armor. It also had a cast turret with both curved armor and a large thick gun mantlet. This made the M4 very tough to kill at range in a frontal encounter from longer ranges. While more vulnerablr from the sides and rear taken "head on" the sherman is close to the T-34 in toughness.

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Offline humble

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Re: Shermans!
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2008, 12:09:33 PM »
We have a Sherman VC Firefly, not the Sherman M4. The one we have has better armor and a MUCH better gun. (British 17 pounder) It can take rounds from a Panzer IV.

Actually the firefly is a conversion of about 5-6 different variations of M4 but most were converted early models, the turret is modified but the chassis is "stock".

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Offline TheMan

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Re: Shermans!
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2008, 12:11:37 PM »
We have a Sherman VC Firefly, not the Sherman M4. The one we have has better armor and a MUCH better gun. (British 17 pounder) It can take rounds from a Panzer IV.
Thats not true at all. if you dont believe me heres the proof. The firefly was exact same armor and tank as the american m4.


http://www.onwar.com/tanks/usa/fm4.htm

http://www.onwar.com/tanks/uk/data/firefly.htm
« Last Edit: August 08, 2008, 12:35:31 PM by TheMan »

Offline TheMan

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Re: Shermans!
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2008, 12:15:45 PM »
The poster seems to confuse the Panzer IV with a Tiger.

Panzer IV's weren't that kind of uber-tanks guarranteed to kill a Sherman, especially not at longer rangers.  Neither were  Sherman as weakly armored as a common myth seems to indicate...
Panzers gun was plenty strong to kill a sherman at range. When the first sherman came out , the american model , it was destroyed by the panzer and the tiger. The firefly could now kill the panzer with the new high volocity round tho. And im talking point blank here , it ricocheds off them or they abosrb it. If you jump in a gv more often instad of flying a temp you would understand a little more on the subject  ;)

Offline TheMan

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Re: Shermans!
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2008, 12:20:25 PM »
The poster seems to confuse the Panzer IV with a Tiger.

Panzer IV's weren't that kind of uber-tanks guarranteed to kill a Sherman, especially not at longer rangers.  Neither were  Sherman as weakly armored as a common myth seems to indicate...
http://www.onwar.com/tanks/germany/data/tiger1.htm
http://www.onwar.com/tanks/germany/data/pz4h.htm

Theres some more info on it right there. While were on this topic , there shermans round should not be able to 1 hit a tiger at 2800 yards. I have been ranging at 2800 yards in blue arena on a hill at the 88 North spawn. And shermans pop me first hit almost all time time. If im lucky they will smoke me. shermans gun is garbage at long range compared to the tiger and the panzer.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2008, 12:23:01 PM by TheMan »

Offline Motherland

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Re: Shermans!
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2008, 12:22:13 PM »
Panzers gun was plenty strong to kill a sherman at range. When the first sherman came out , the american model , it was destroyed by the panzer and the tiger. The firefly could now kill the panzer with the new high volocity round tho. And im talking point blank here , it ricocheds off them or they abosrb it.
The Firefly is an extremely easy kill at close range in the Panzer IV, provided you shoot first.

Offline Pannono

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Re: Shermans!
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2008, 12:23:35 PM »
wahhhhh i didnt kill a sherman with 1 shot and he killed me with 1 shot
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Offline Lusche

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Offline TheMan

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Re: Shermans!
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2008, 12:25:57 PM »
The Firefly is an extremely easy kill at close range in the Panzer IV, provided you shoot first.
Thats what im saying , a tiger round and a panzer round doesn't ricochet off a sherman at know 1,000 yards , or absorb it like they normally do. Ask anyone that GVs and they will say the same thing. There armor is over modeled. The reason the tank was able to defeat the german tanks was because there was alot of them. It was easier to mass produce. If you look at the stats on the tiger , you will see that it is the mac daddy of tanks. 100MM armor all around , but still get iced by panzers.

Offline TheMan

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Re: Shermans!
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2008, 12:26:47 PM »
These links do not contradict my post :)
I guess I didnt understand it then  :uhoh