Flop in the Philippines 1944

[SIM]

What started out as a really nice idea quickly eroded into a cluster.........

Per the Allied Frame 1 Orders:

Offensive Targets:
A15 - Luzon - 06.15.03. (Small Airfield) (195 Points)
A24 - Luzon - 07.13.04. (Small Airfield) (195 Points)
C78 - Sibuyan Sea - 09.06.05. (Cruiser Fleet) (300 Points) PLEASE NOTICE THAT THE TYPE OF FLEET IS CRUISER
C79 - Sibuyan Sea - 08.08.05. (Cruiser Fleet) (300 Points) PLEASE NOTICE THAT THE TYPE OF FLEET IS CRUISER

C78 turned out to be a CARRIER fleet.
C79 turned out to be a CARRIER fleet.


IIRC carriers take more to destroy than cruisers. Has this been changed without anyone knowing?

I watched KI61's strafe ships with little or no damage during their runs. While I don't consider this to be any sort of wrong on their part, why isnt there a risk? AAA is apparently turned down to the point that it was TOTALLY ineffective. I understand not wanting the ack to ruin the flight for people. But strafing a ship would have risks. Gun positions were disabled so gunners could not be used.

Would not, allowing gunners, balance out the effect of enemy aircraft strafing down targets?

All in all, not a good night IMHO.

[forHIM]

Sim -- the ack at 73 killed all 3 of my ki67's in short order.  Torpedo runs on 73 were suicidal, I'd hoped that 1 of 3 planes would make it out, but two were dead before I really got to turn away after dropping and the third died just the other side of the fleet while it was still pelting me.  I guess perspective and or rice planes versus armored allied birds.

I believe it was meant that the cruiser was the only valid target on those two fleets and not the carrier.  I may be wrong, but that's how I read the objectives. And if could have been a snafu. 

[Imoutfishing]

I do agree that a KI61 in no way shape or form would be able to strafe down a CV & the may have been some slight set up issue's. 

I do in fact have some concern with the over all trend in the FSO event in regards to the plane set's. 

The first thing I think we need to look at is the fine line between what planes were there & the fact that we are playing a video game.  What was there at the time does not account for the numbers of advanced fighters or the quality of the pilots flying those advanced aircraft.  Then we can add the flight model's into the mix and the "historical" aspect is so far off kilter it's not even funny.

What I see is a bunch of guy's trying to put up fun events on a Friday nights but not having the tools to do so.  First off we nee the plane set for the CM's to get it right.  I'm sure that is in the works.  Then we need to cross the bounty of history vs. what plane's in our game do what to each other. 

In short I think it's in the best interest of the FSO event as a whole to provide the following:

(1) a plane match up that is even but not based on history but more on our game.

(2) like this FSO stay on the attack & defence.  A few FSO's in the recent past have been a bit simple in regards to the goals.

(3) a more even keel playing field with aircraft.  Stay away from the internet match up's & focus on what planes would work best in flight in "our game" against each other.

There are a lot of people playing in the FSO event & every one of them deserve a fair shake every time.  I'm sorry to report that the side adjustment's & plane selections don't seem to be keeping up with the times.  I see an attempt to give a few players a hand up on the rest and that just makes it harder on all of us.

MGD

[Krusty]

I had a perfect 90-degree dive on a cruiser, perfect lead for my alt (less than 5k at drop) and when I dropped and pulled up my bomb splashes were perfectly on the midships..... Only an entire ship's length to the SIDE. I saw several others that followed my run, were perfectly lined up, and their splashes were just as far off as mine.

Wind is wrong. Just wrong. It doesn't interact with aircraft that have wheels on the ground properly, and has TOO much impact on high speed projectile bombs that are quite aerodynamic and too small to be moved off target 1000 feet (?) in the space of 10 seconds or so for drop time to impact time. A combination of two entire squadrons of fighters dropped on it just to kill the DD.

Wind was screwing up even LOW alt drops. The only thing left were 4 destroyers. An entire squadron of A6M5bs and an entire squadron of Ki-61s made repeated entire-squad-strength bombing runs, rearmed, bombed, rearmed, bombed, and yes us a6m5bs even had a couple more that rearmed and went back out to bomb.


We sank 1 destroyer. Out of 4. Out of probably 80 combined ord loads from fighters. There were a LOT of Ki61s and a LOT of A6M5bs. We repeatedly hit over and over and over and the bombs were not landing on target because of low alt winds.

I waited on one of my runs until I was point blank on the bow of a destroyer and dropped at 1000 feet then ran out of the fricking ridiculously lethal ack. Never hit the ship.

I'm no slouch for ship bombing, especially when nearly suicidal like I was in this FSO. I can hit 90% of the time even if I don't survive.

COMBINED, about 30-40 pilots that all seemed semi-competent and well armed made 3 bombs, rearms, bombs, rearms, bombs, and landed with a total whopping 1 ship kill.


I cannot begin to describe how screwed up the wind system is in this game, and cannot agree with ANY CM that adds it (especially at low alts) in simply as an attempt to make things more realistic. It is as far from a realistic effect as you can get.


We're talking a system so buggy it will move an LVT 10mph down stream when the LVT spawns, and the LVT can't stop still to start its engine and shift into gear. That just doesn't happen, I'm sorry. The wind is bugged, stupid, and should not be used.

[SkyRock]

I had a perfect 90-degree dive on a cruiser, perfect lead for my alt (less than 5k at drop) and when I dropped and pulled up my bomb splashes were perfectly on the midships..... Only an entire ship's length to the SIDE. I saw several others that followed my run, were perfectly lined up, and their splashes were just as far off as mine.

Wind is wrong. Just wrong. It doesn't interact with aircraft that have wheels on the ground properly, and has TOO much impact on high speed projectile bombs that are quite aerodynamic and too small to be moved off target 1000 feet (?) in the space of 10 seconds or so for drop time to impact time. A combination of two entire squadrons of fighters dropped on it just to kill the DD.

Wind was screwing up even LOW alt drops. The only thing left were 4 destroyers. An entire squadron of A6M5bs and an entire squadron of Ki-61s made repeated entire-squad-strength bombing runs, rearmed, bombed, rearmed, bombed, and yes us a6m5bs even had a couple more that rearmed and went back out to bomb.


We sank 1 destroyer. Out of 4. Out of probably 80 combined ord loads from fighters. There were a LOT of Ki61s and a LOT of A6M5bs. We repeatedly hit over and over and over and the bombs were not landing on target because of low alt winds.

I waited on one of my runs until I was point blank on the bow of a destroyer and dropped at 1000 feet then ran out of the fricking ridiculously lethal ack. Never hit the ship.

I'm no slouch for ship bombing, especially when nearly suicidal like I was in this FSO. I can hit 90% of the time even if I don't survive.

COMBINED, about 30-40 pilots that all seemed semi-competent and well armed made 3 bombs, rearms, bombs, rearms, bombs, and landed with a total whopping 1 ship kill.


I cannot begin to describe how screwed up the wind system is in this game, and cannot agree with ANY CM that adds it (especially at low alts) in simply as an attempt to make things more realistic. It is as far from a realistic effect as you can get.


We're talking a system so buggy it will move an LVT 10mph down stream when the LVT spawns, and the LVT can't stop still to start its engine and shift into gear. That just doesn't happen, I'm sorry. The wind is bugged, stupid, and should not be used.

wind at 15 degrees, angle at 15 degrees, ack at 15 degrees, Krusty's bomb......14.743 degrees.  O noes!

[ian5440]

I do agree that a KI61 in no way shape or form would be able to strafe down a CV & the may have been some slight set up issue's. 

he said ships not CV

my CO nikomon finnish off a little destroyer that i had just previously bombed with my KI61

[trax1]

Maybe what they need to do is have no wind under say 5k, I think this would solve the dive bombing problem, but still require high alt level bombers to adjust for the wind at their alt.

[ian5440]

Maybe what they need to do is have no wind under say 5k, I think this would solve the dive bombing problem, but still require high alt level bombers to adjust for the wind at their alt.

sounds good

[angelsandair]

You know you've had a good FSO when:

Top Pilots: Kills
   fireplug (325th Checkertails VFG): 8
   Joker1 (The Damned): 5
   Selino30 (Righteous Vengeance): 4
   spIVeyCH (~364th FG C-HAWKS): 4
   VALDALS (Righteous Vengeance): 4
   1pLUs44 (880 Sqn Fleet Air Arm): 4  

[Shifty]

You know you've had a good FSO when:

Top Pilots: Kills
   fireplug (325th Checkertails VFG): 8
   Joker1 (The Damned): 5
   Selino30 (Righteous Vengeance): 4
   spIVeyCH (~364th FG C-HAWKS): 4
   VALDALS (Righteous Vengeance): 4
   1pLUs44 (880 Sqn Fleet Air Arm): 4  

You know you've had a bad FSO frame when your squad of new guys on a strike mission runs into a cloud of N1K2s.
You know you've had a terrible FSO frame when those Georges are piloted by The Army of Muppets, and 9GIAP.
At least they were quick about it and nobody suffered.

[Nefarious]

I'll try to answer as much as I can, Other things I will touch up on later in the results.

4XTCH the Setup CM, incorrectly read the objectives. And instead of Destroying the CVs at 78,79, and 81 he destroyed the Cruisers.

The Ack Settings have always been reduced in FSO usually to the tune of less than 0.5, I have been using .3 most of my events. This is to avoid One Ping Ack Kills and testing shows that repeated passes will result in damage.

As far as the Plane set goes, It's not changing. Looking at the numbers briefly, The Axis only fielded 19 more players than the Allies, and only used 38 Franks and Georges. Now I haven't combed the logs yet, so we will see how much damage they really did. (I know personally that I respawned two of those Franks due to JS trouble). I would say 36 Franks and Georges out of nearly 260+ Pilots is pretty reasonable. MGD, I can't tell what your trying to convey. Who was in the advantage? Who had the upper hand? You never mentioned it in your post.

At A1 Bombers could not spawn on the Runway, Hangar was the only option. When they launched all the drones were killed by spawning on top of the Hangar itself. I apologize for that as I should of caught that in my testing. Then combine that with the re-arm issue with Drones, once again something I totally forgot about.

As far as the wind goes, I am going to confer with the team and see what can be done.

For me last night was a major flop. After my two aborted launches and re-logs to check my JS, I finally solved my problem and rolled with 25% fuel. I didn't catch it until about T+35, when my engine died.  

[Shifty]

As far as the Plane set goes, It's not changing. Looking at the numbers briefly, The Axis only fielded 19 more players than the Allies, and only used 38 Franks and Georges. Now I haven't combed the logs yet, so we will see how much damage they really did. (I know personally that I respawned two of those Franks due to JS trouble). I would say 36 Franks and Georges out of nearly 260+ Pilots is pretty reasonable. MGD, I can't tell what your trying to convey. Who was in the advantage? Who had the upper hand? You never mentioned it in your post.

Wasn't complaining about the plane set it was just bad timing on our part. As we came up on the target a large force of Allies were egressing the area. We were alone and heavy and had to hit A24 before 60 minute mark. The Georges arrived as we were in our dives, **** happens.

[007Rusty]

I had fun   found the bad guy cv put my eggs on her and scored a few kill's to  

[Fencer51]

Maybe what they need to do is have no wind under say 5k, I think this would solve the dive bombing problem, but still require high alt level bombers to adjust for the wind at their alt.

Or maybe the dive bombers could plan and not bomb with the crosswind, but bomb into the wind.

[Chapel]

It's one thing to try and compensate for wind, but when the carrier is being turned and doing loop-de-loops and figure 8's, there's really only a partial chance in a frozen hell you "might" hit the dang thing. Don't even TRY to line up with a Ki-67 and get calibrated. Either way though, I had a good time and was laughing it up for most of the night as were my squadmates.