seafire vs. bf110

[Shane]

Flame wars with fanboys (on either side) is fruitless.

actually, most fanbois *are* fruits...

 

[CAP1]

Good point.

Keep it civil SlapShot.  What I said in the FB forum was not intended for you to bring back here and throw into the fan.  Getting nasty accomplishes nothing except hard feeling.  It doesn't make converts.  Keep that in perspective, ok.  Flame wars with fanboys (on either side) is fruitless.

Having only played this game for four days I will not possess knowledge of all the intricacies of AH.  I can only make observations of the difference in flight modeling.  And like I said before, having never flown this type of aircraft, I have no clue what is accurate and true in either game.  Do you?

 So please spare me your outrage.  I'm entitled to my opinion and I kept  my negative comments about AH on UBI and I haven't attacked anyone here in this thread.  Can you say the same?

might be nasty, but at least he's honest.

[mg1942]

You people have misconceptions about Bf 110's capabilities. 

110 fighters are decent at low to medium-low altitudes.  It's only high altitude fighting in Battle of Britain 1940 and air war in 1944-1945 that showed 110's weaknesses.

[SlapShot]

Good point.

Keep it civil SlapShot.  What I said in the FB forum was not intended for you to bring back here and throw into the fan.  Getting nasty accomplishes nothing except hard feeling.  It doesn't make converts.  Keep that in perspective, ok.  Flame wars with fanboys (on either side) is fruitless.

Well .. your post's in the IL2 BBS don't sound like a "convert". You act all nice over here, yet go back to IL2 BBS and spew crap.

Don't make posts on the IL2 BBS that couldn't be posted here without embarrassment.

You got outflown ... simple as that ... flight model had nothing to do with it.

You had and still have no clue of the E state and speed of the 110 ... just that he dropped 1000 ft. During that drop, he could have been scrubbing speed and gaining an angle. All the while, your going full bore and then decide to enter a +-6G turn (riding the tunnel) to the left.

So, as he scrubs E, getting closer to his best turning speed, and gains angle, you take your Spit way out of it best fighting and turning speed ... he turns inside you and then follows you very easily in a 360 flat turn and takes you down with some bad arse cannons.

Even Kurfurst__ and idonno cited that you possibly got outflown, but that still didn't sit right with you, so you had to try prove it with AI and even then they said that testing with AI is not a valid test.

What you should have done was gradual turn to the left and as he moved for a lead angle, then you turn tight into him and up at the same time. He never would have been able to follow. At that point, you just brought the fight to the vertical ... you are on top ... and now in control. Turning into him and up at the same time has now brought down the speed of the Spit into it's best "fighting zone" and you also have alt on the 110. The 110 is now at your mercy.

[nonaste]

might be nasty, but at least he's honest.

How am I being dishonest?  Have I lied about something?  Please elucidate.  What I did was express some disillusionment and incredulity with what I encountered in an encounter.  I did that in both forums. 

[Shane]

not to mention 1k is only 333.3333333333333333333333333 333333 yds.. well within guns range - might not even have had to turn much to get the kill shot...  without film, there's no way of knowing what the 110 actually did, other than shooting him down.  as mentioned could be due to a variety of reasons...

corner speeds are very "set", true, but i highly doubt either were at pure cornering speed(s).  let's not forget, instaneous turning, which was also alluded to.  

my suggestion to AH newbies is to film, film , film... and watch them.

[SlapShot]

So please spare me your outrage.  I'm entitled to my opinion and I kept  my negative comments about AH on UBI and I haven't attacked anyone here in this thread.  Can you say the same?

I'll spare you nothing ... I can't stand people that talk out of both sides of their mouth.

You come to this BBS and "wonder" about something ... people give you honest answers ... and then you go back to the IL2 BBS and spew crap ... not good in my book.

I tried IL2 ... I didn't like it ... yet, not once did I come back here spewing crap about the IL2 flight model and the other things that I didn't like about it. What purpose would that serve outside of getting AH fans to join in on the slamming of IL2.

You should have done the same ... try it ... don't like it ... fine, disappear quietly and go back to you game of choice and keep your mouth shut.

[SlapShot]

How am I being dishonest?  Have I lied about something?  Please elucidate.  What I did was express some disillusionment and incredulity with what I encountered in an encounter.  I did that in both forums. 

I call BS on that too ... "disillusionment and incredulity" along with a splash "slamming" ... along with a lie to your IL2 buddies ... here is your original post on the IL2 BBS ... disingenuous at best ...

I wanted to ask a question or two about this sim but I see no point about going to their forum.

I've been playing Il2 for 3 years and then just for giggles I thought I'd try Aces High. Lordy, lord. Talk about culture shock or something.

The graphics absolutely suck. The cockpits are ridiculous and the fm for aircraft are shocking compared to Il2. For example, I can easily avoid a p38 or p51 in a zero in Il2. I was amazed at what those two birds can do in Aces High. Is this realistic? They were kicking my butt at low altitude.

So I'm confused. What am I missing here? What is the attraction? Can somebody explain what the devil is going on with a game like that.

Oh yes. The reason I'm checking it out is because I ran into an Aces High bloke while playing multiplayer Il2. This guy was totally disappointed with Il2 and claimed he was returning the game. Something about fms sucking. Yeah, I can understand that after sticking my toes in the water with Aces High.

Like I said, no point in going to the Aces High forum to post this because they are obviously fans. Maybe somebody here could explain the really, really big fan base there.

Who gives a rats arse about cockpit detail ... I'm sure all the fighter pilots in WWII were admiring their cockpits rather that concentrate on the enemy at hand while dogfighting.

I can dodge P-38s and P-51s all day long in a Zero ... it's you ... not the FM ... and as Shane pointed out, you probably have the "stall limiter" set on, but rather than figure out all that first and then take a longer and more objective look at this game, you felt compelled to go back to the IL2 BBS to make you feel better about you failing in Aces High.

[nonaste]

Well .. your post's in the IL2 BBS don't sound like a "convert". You act all nice over here, yet go back to IL2 BBS and spew crap.

Since you insist on continuing on this course I'll assist you.  I didn't spew crap, as you so eloquently classify it.  It was on opinion which was corroborated by other members of the Il-2 community. I didn't say I am a convert and with your attitude that goal may be hindered, which I believe you couldn't give a damn about, short sighted as that is.

Don't make posts on the IL2 BBS that couldn't be posted here without embarrassment.

I'm not embarrassed by my comments but you should be with your unwarranted, though understandable, hostility.

You got outflown ... simple as that ... flight model had nothing to do with it.

Perhaps I was out flown but the 110 flight model here is drastically different than the FM there and THAT is NOT arguable.  Certainly with the right angles, speed, etc. and a little luck a 110 can get a snapshot on a spit and bring him down in a diving attack.  But in a flat fight.  No way in Il-2.  Flight model had a definite effect on that fight, providing he didn't get me with a deflection shot, which he didn't.  He was on me like white on rice.

You had and still have no clue of the E state and speed of the 110 ... just that he dropped 1000 ft. During that drop, he could have been scrubbing speed and gaining an angle. All the while, your going full bore and then decide to enter a +-6G turn (riding the tunnel) to the left.

So, as he scrubs E, getting closer to his best turning speed, and gains angle, you take your Spit way out of it best fighting and turning speed ... he turns inside you and then follows you very easily in a 360 flat turn and takes you down with some bad arse cannons.

Even Kurfurst__ and idonno cited that you possibly got outflown, but that still didn't sit right with you, so you had to try prove it with AI and even then they said that testing with AI is not a valid test.

Kurfurst in an expert on technical aspects of German war planes and I value his opinion but he still wasn't there to see my short lived fight. One guy said the QMB test was not valid.  Kurfurst didn't say that.  He said the 110 can be underestimated. 

What you should have done was gradual turn to the left and as he moved for a lead angle, then you turn tight into him and up at the same time. He never would have been able to follow. At that point, you just brought the fight to the vertical ... you are on top ... and now in control. Turning into him and up at the same time has now brought down the speed of the Spit into it's best "fighting zone" and you also have alt on the 110. The 110 is now at your mercy.

Your tactics sound good but you too didn't see the fight.  There was no energy  to transition to the vertical after bleeding my e off making reverse turns, jinking and then going into a tight 360 as a final resort.  What do you think was or should have been happening to his e after all this? Huh?

[Shane]

we don't even know who the 110 pie-let was.. could be someone who specializes in it.

and as mentioned, if you went into a defensive flat-turn with someone that close on your tail at speeds sufficient to allow "riding the tunnel".. well, all i can say is... you need to work on your skills.

as for the post slappy is quoting from the il BBS.. i fail to see how anyone here was less than helpful until someone asked what the differences were, and even the replies to that were hardly rabidly anti-il2. i think you gave a stronger condemnation of AH than anyone in this thread gave to IL2 (not saying it couldn't have been more brutally opinionated - but it might head that way now.)

 

[nonaste]

I call BS on that too ... "disillusionment and incredulity" along with a splash "slamming" ... along with a lie to your IL2 buddies ... here is your original post on the IL2 BBS ... disingenuous at best ...

I wanted to ask a question or two about this sim but I see no point about going to their forum.

I've been playing Il2 for 3 years and then just for giggles I thought I'd try Aces High. Lordy, lord. Talk about culture shock or something.

The graphics absolutely suck. The cockpits are ridiculous and the fm for aircraft are shocking compared to Il2. For example, I can easily avoid a p38 or p51 in a zero in Il2. I was amazed at what those two birds can do in Aces High. Is this realistic? They were kicking my butt at low altitude.

So I'm confused. What am I missing here? What is the attraction? Can somebody explain what the devil is going on with a game like that.

Oh yes. The reason I'm checking it out is because I ran into an Aces High bloke while playing multiplayer Il2. This guy was totally disappointed with Il2 and claimed he was returning the game. Something about fms sucking. Yeah, I can understand that after sticking my toes in the water with Aces High.

Like I said, no point in going to the Aces High forum to post this because they are obviously fans. Maybe somebody here could explain the really, really big fan base there.

Who gives a rats arse about cockpit detail ... I'm sure all the fighter pilots in WWII were admiring their cockpits rather that concentrate on the enemy at hand while dogfighting.

I can dodge P-38s and P-51s all day long in a Zero ... it's you ... not the FM ... and as Shane pointed out, you probably have the "stall limiter" set on, but rather than figure out all that first and then take a longer and more objective look at this game, you felt compelled to go back to the IL2 BBS to make you feel better about you failing in Aces High.

Gee SlapShot I see your panties are in a twist because I had the temerity to talk smack about your game in the Il-2.  Sorry man, really am about hurting your feelings.  But get over it will you?  What was said there should have been left there, unless of course you get some sort of perverse pleasure in stirring the crapola.

I didn't cancel my subscription to AH.  You might like me too.  But I see fun in this game, which is what it all boils down too, right?  I think that I'll hang around awhile, learn a new game, experience a different style of flying and... to annoy the living hell out of you, maybe.

So let's kiss and make up and I promise to keep any libelous  observations I might have out of here, your bailiwick, your nest ...which is what I thought I did, now that I mentioned it.

This is getting to be a bore.  A pissing contest with SlapShot is not particularly rewarding.  I'd just as soon have some fun flying than wasting precious time arguing with you.  I'm done discussing this with you and have a nice day.

[Shane]

What was said there should have been left there,

man, my irony meter just pegged out...   what happens in AH2/IL2 should stay in AH2/IL@ respectively... right?

slappy's original assertion that if you're not satisfied with AH2, then all you needed was to simply go back to IL2 (without needing to slam AH2 over there - what purpose did *that* serve?)

meh, poepl are as poepl do...  but you are correct in saying that it's all about fun, and we each have our own definition of it... who knows, if you stick around long enough to get the hang of it, maybe going back to IL2 will be like, "zomg! IL2 is teh suxxorz!!"  ...or not, who knows?

[nonaste]

we don't even know who the 110 pie-let was.. could be someone who specializes in it.

and as mentioned, if you went into a defensive flat-turn with someone that close on your tail at speeds sufficient to allow "riding the tunnel".. well, all i can say is... you need to work on your skills.

as for the post slappy is quoting from the il BBS.. i fail to see how anyone here was less than helpful until someone asked what the differences were, and even the replies to that were hardly rabidly anti-il2. i think you gave a stronger condemnation of AH than anyone in this thread gave to IL2 (not saying it couldn't have been more brutally opinionated - but it might head that way now.)

 

Man oh man.  Is anybody reading what I said, anybody?  I've not accused anyone here of not being helpful, except maybe SlapShot.  He's behaving like a petulant child.

My negative comments about AH were restricted to the UBI forum.  And those guys, believe me, aren't the slightest interested in comparing.  Reread Bearcat's comments again.

If you desire to talk trash about Il-2 please feel free.  I'll join in.  I've got some heartache about that game as well, as good as it is.  Why do you think I'm here if I'm completely enamored by Il-2?

As far as my skills, admittedly I'm average.  But there's room for all to improve, right, even virtual Aces.

Last comment on this subject.  Signing off.  It's becoming a war which I won't and can't win, not here.  Thanks SlapShot.  You might be a good detective but you've got poor judgment.

[Shane]

My negative comments about AH were restricted to the UBI forum.  And those guys, believe me, aren't the slightest interested in comparing.  Reread Bearcat's comments again.

As far as my skills, admittedly I'm average.  But there's room for all to improve, right, even virtual Aces.

this is the intardnetz, dude... nothing stays hidden for long.

But out of curiousity if the UBI guys could care less... why did you post that?  no answer needed as it won't change that fact, but something for you to ponder.

as for improving... i'm sure you will.  poepl here will talk Shaw endlessly and we have our boring windbags, too.

personal note:  flying by the numbers usually gets one dead, or at best, remaining in obscurity.  it's all about anticipation and execution, having a healthy dose of talent/instinct doesn't hurt.

i highly recommend you download some .hps (head position files) from someone who has moved them from the craptastic default ones - you could do it yourself in game with the keypad and pg up/dwn, but it'd save u time getting some already re-positioned and will go along way in helping with your SA.  If you want to PM me your email addy, I'll gladly send you my .hps files which have been set for almost all ftrs and some bombers and maybe some GV's... I don't do those much anymore and some have been updated since i last flew 2 years ago.

also, bear in mind, alts are in feet, ranges are in yards. so if the guy was only 1,000 feet above you (300 yds, whch would show on icon as 200/400 depending), and not too far behind it wouldn't take much to get a guns solution.

in any case, welcome to AH2... stick around long enough and it'll grow on you and you can post all sorts of gripes and whines just liek anyone else.. *about* AH2... *here*   

[SlapShot]

nonaste ... I don't have my panties in a bunch ... and I am far from a petulant child ... I just can't stand people that talk out of both sides of their mouth ... your posts on the IL2 BBS speak for themselves.

I may have been born in the night, but it wasn't last night.

People here who have many years of flight sims experience are more than willing to take the time to answer your Aces High questions, you should show the courtesy of not going back to your IL2 boyz and talk crap.

Stick around all you want ... I am not trying to drive you out of here ... just cut the crap. You got a problem/question, we will answer it and help the best we can ... and leave it here. There is no one the flys IL2 exclusively that can answer any of your Aces High questions ... so don't come here and ask a question and then go to the IL2 BBS and expect a correct answer ... you won't get it ... and especially a non-biased one ... and then you all can sit there and slap each other on the back while slamming Aces High.

I feel no need to talk trash about IL2 ... what does it accomplish ... absolutely nothing ... it serves no purpose.

"Why do you think I'm here if I'm completely enamored by Il-2?"

According to your IL2 post ... "I've been playing Il2 for 3 years and then just for giggles I thought I'd try Aces High." ... so is it really a joke/giggle or do you not want to admit to the IL2 crowd that your not completely enamored by IL2 ?

You want to stick around and learn Aces High so it can be fun .. fine ... go to the training area and hook up with some of the fine trainers that we have here ... they can get you on the 'fast track" for the fun you seek seeing that Aces High would not be your first flight sim.