Christianity, is it

[JAGED]

I'm not Catholic so I don't pay attention to what they do/don't do.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume you belong to a Protestant denomination (you'll correct me if I'm wrong and, if so, my apologies).  All Protestant denominations owe their existance to the Catholic Church, and while the Reformation dealt with things like the Papacy and Indulgences, they still take some of their queues from the Catholics.  Notions like Limbo were filtered down to the Protestants.  Ever heard of Predestination?  When the Catholics publish their dates for Easter do the Protestants not adhere to it?

So it might be of concern to you after all.  Not sure, just saying...

[ChickenHawk]

Guppy35, it's clear that you have married an amazing woman. 

May God bless you and your new family.

[Guppy35]

Although its nice to be nice, and trying to be a good Samaritan is a worthy effort. Christianity is knowing that perfect adherence to Gods rules are essential, and we are deficient. It teaches that we are incapable of earning or deserving of Gods eternal goodness or salvation toward us, and that God alone provided what is necessary for our aid. How unfair is it to give someone what they deserve, if it yours to give. What if you have given everything good to someone, and they misused wasted and ignored how they were to handle what was given. Then come to you again and ask for more. To some God choses to forgive and give, others not. If you want specifics I could tell you where the bible lays it out. So to those astrology buff's, clue me in to the detailed specifics of the similarities to Christianity.   

And that is where in my mind,  man gets in the way of faith.  The notion that some all powerful being is keeping score and sits in judgment of us just doesn't work for me.  That's not my "father".  As a parent, you don't give up on your children regardless of their mistakes.  You are implying that God does. so you better be good or you won't get a cookie.  It also implies that being a good person is for selfish reasons, because you hope the big guy might recognize it.

The best man I ever knew was my father and he died at 45.   Did the good die young?  Well I'm 48 now and I've done my best to be a good man too.  So is my living punishment?  Watching my children die is the most horrific thing anyone could go through.  There is no greater punishment.  I've known heaven already.  It was my family.  Nothing could be better then that.  There is no reward greater then my wife and kids and I've lost half of that already.  If there is a heaven, for me it would be my family together again.  I don't need some great understanding.  And if there is a hell, I've been there already.

I've had all the usual cliche's thrown at me both after my Dad died, a month before my son was born, and after my son and daughter died.  They don't work.  No God would plan to kill people.  A loving father doesn't do that to 'teach lessons'.  Outside of suicide, I don't have much choice but to keep going, so that beauty "God only gives you what you can handle" really doesn't work for me.  I'm not a better man for having endured the last three years.  There is no lesson in surviving.  And if someone is going to tell me, my two kids had to die, so Cathy would save this one, the math is kind of lousy.

What I believe is that someday I'll see my kids again.  If I didn't believe that, I don't know that I'd have kept going.

As for being a good person, that's a choice I make.  I can't condemn others who don't live life the way I do.  They too have a choice.  I don't believe God would give us that ability and then condemn some folks for their choices.

Jeez I'm windy. 

[Holden McGroin]

Did you know that the Catholic Church is on the verge of abolishing Limbo?

What is their position on mojitos?

[potsNpans]

The notion that some all powerful being is keeping score and sits in judgment of us just doesn't work for me.  That's not my "father".  As a parent, you don't give up on your children regardless of their mistakes.  You are implying that God does. so you better be good or you won't get a cookie.  It also implies that being a good person is for selfish reasons, because you hope the big guy might recognize it. "Guppy35"

..."we are incapable of earning or deserving of Gods eternal goodness or salvation toward us, and that God alone provided what is necessary for our aid"...What again did I imply?
Tragedy is found in many places, unfortunately it found you. However as this thread sought to make the argument of presenting "old school astrology" to just new age Christianity. Skyrock being ignorant of essential Christian doctrine has been flaccid as yet to present where the two meet at fundamental points. Vague generalities and factually errant videos might stir school children, but makes for poor honest debate.

Notions like Limbo were filtered down to the Protestants.  Ever heard of Predestination?"Jaged"

  Limbo In theological usage the name is applied to (a) the temporary place or state of the souls of the just who, although purified from sin, were excluded from the beatific vision until Christ's triumphant ascension into Heaven (the "limbus patrum"); or (b) to the permanent place or state of those unbaptized children and others who, dying without grievous personal sin, are excluded from the beatific vision on account of original sin alone (the "limbus infantium" or "puerorum").
Theologically, the principal issue of predestination in the Bible has to do with God selecting people for salvation beforehand. The Bible clearly does teach that somehow God chooses people for salvation before they're even born. Maybe you might want to read up on those subjects?

[Guppy35]

..."we are incapable of earning or deserving of Gods eternal goodness or salvation toward us, and that God alone provided what is necessary for our aid"...What again did I imply?
Tragedy is found in many places, unfortunately it found you. However as this thread sought to make the argument of presenting "old school astrology" to just new age Christianity. Skyrock being ignorant of essential Christian doctrine has been flaccid as yet to present where the two meet at fundamental points. Vague generalities and factually errant videos might stir school children, but makes for poor honest debate.   Limbo In theological usage the name is applied to (a) the temporary place or state of the souls of the just who, although purified from sin, were excluded from the beatific vision until Christ's triumphant ascension into Heaven (the "limbus patrum"); or (b) to the permanent place or state of those unbaptized children and others who, dying without grievous personal sin, are excluded from the beatific vision on account of original sin alone (the "limbus infantium" or "puerorum").
Theologically, the principal issue of predestination in the Bible has to do with God selecting people for salvation beforehand. The Bible clearly does teach that somehow God chooses people for salvation before they're even born. Maybe you might want to read up on those subjects?

So the question becomes, is the bible the literal word of God, or the interpretation of the word of god by men.  Again, the basics are hard to debate.  Treat people well, look out for your neighbor.  But the bible didn't come together for quite some time after the death of Jesus and what was included in the bible was the work of men, making a decision as to what belonged and what didn't.   Any book is going to include the built in bias of the culture, the time, the people writing it etc.

The beauty of faith is that it is each person's interpretation and if as an average joe I can comment, it evolves over a person's life.  It isn't set in stone.  The danger of religion is that it is man trying to impose man's will on another man's faith and to set it in stone.

[moot]

What's the zen saying, about the way being something that, if you speak it, it disappears?  It sounds a bit like Franklin's "All intelligent men have the same religion / If you ask them, they say nothing"
The problem with religion, in man's hands, is when it degrades from thought, through various intermediates, and into machine, like some churches.  At that point the religious machine may feel righteous, but in fact has no rational justification for anything they do.  Religion is best kept private.

[Elfie]

But the bible didn't come together for quite some time after the death of Jesus and what was included in the bible was the work of men, making a decision as to what belonged and what didn't.

The men that compiled the books into the Bible trusted that the Holy Spirit would not allow them to make a mistake. 

[Guppy35]

The men that compiled the books into the Bible trusted that the Holy Spirit would not allow them to make a mistake. 

That also implies that God controls us, which takes me off the hook for just about everything, and puts the deaths of millions on God.

I can't buy that part.  That he would be selectively active is even scarier to me.    He could take care of the world's suffering but just isn't in the mood?

That's the part I can reconcile, in particular since the kids were killed.  My uncle, who is a minister said at the funeral,  God had a choice, to be all controlling, or all loving.  He chose to be all loving, which means he gave us choice too, and with that, things happen.

I can accept that part as like any parent, you don't micromanage your kids.  You give them the best tools you can and you send them out to live their lives.  Sometimes they get in cars and an accident happens.  All controlling, we'd have never let Drew drive, or Chris go with him or even let them out of our sight just to avoid those fears that come with being parents.  But that's control, not love.

Instead you take the risks and wish for the best.   And sometimes it doesn't happen.

[Elfie]

That also implies that God controls us, which takes me off the hook for just about everything, and puts the deaths of millions on God.

No....you either misunderstand, or I wasn't clear....either way....

Those men prayed for guidance, God provided that guidance in the form of the Holy Spirit and they trusted that the Holy Spirit would guide them in which books belonged and which didn't.

*edit*

If your kids came to you asking for advice, do you ignore them? Or do you give them the best advice you know? I'm guessing for you, and the rest of us, it's the latter. Same deal with those gents that determined which books were going to make up the Bible.

[SkyRock]

[Donzo]

You think you could post some smaller pics? 

[SD67]

Do you have a better one? The Catholic church ones are a tad hard to read.