Author Topic: Black 6 crash cause?  (Read 14378 times)

Offline Angus

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Re: Black 6 crash cause?
« Reply #120 on: September 29, 2008, 04:45:42 PM »
Oh, you must give the Engliche agent some credit for his brass, for he got very close to killing himself in the crash. Most 109 pilots who flopped over like that would either break their necks or burn to death,,,,or break and then burn.
He must have been a fanatic taking revenge on Hannah's death in a luftwobble saboutaged P38  :furious
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline glock89

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Re: Black 6 crash cause?
« Reply #121 on: September 29, 2008, 04:50:17 PM »
Schlowy, basically all cessna-sized aircraft with 7 times the Hp and 4 times the weight, as well as being taildraggers...are trickier to land than a ...Cessna :D
That's why the 109 had the slats, - as Gunther Rall once told me, he didn't prefer them in combat, because in a rough turn they would throw off his aim, but WITHOUT them the landing would have been unacceptably high.
(Yipppee, this sommer I tried tail draggers and also with slats, so I know what he is talking about)
As for your conspiracy theory, I completely pee on it, - and BTW there are some (and increasing) 109's flyable in the world right now.
As for the performance, there are quite some archives from the Reichsluftministreum available, - real performance tests. I can quote some nice ones from the 109G6 from 1944 if you like :D
In short, you have a case of the luftwobble virus, and it causes you to draw conclusions from the bliss of ignorance.
You got my point thank you.  :aok
Fear and death in the wings, in thrall of those fallen from grace
Petty is as petty does, witness the mass disgrace.

Offline Angus

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Re: Black 6 crash cause?
« Reply #122 on: September 29, 2008, 04:57:26 PM »
Welcome  :aok
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline glock89

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Re: Black 6 crash cause?
« Reply #123 on: September 29, 2008, 04:58:11 PM »
Fear and death in the wings, in thrall of those fallen from grace
Petty is as petty does, witness the mass disgrace.

Offline Bronk

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Re: Black 6 crash cause?
« Reply #124 on: September 29, 2008, 05:01:07 PM »
Snip


Schlowy pointing out your blatantly obvious mistakes is not an attack...... It's a community service.  :aok
See Rule #4

Offline Die Hard

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Re: Black 6 crash cause?
« Reply #125 on: September 29, 2008, 05:11:28 PM »
Most 109 pilots who flopped over like that would either break their necks

Wasn't Black 6 a Gustav? The Gustav had the heavy-duty canopy frame to alleviate that problem.
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Offline glock89

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Re: Black 6 crash cause?
« Reply #126 on: September 29, 2008, 05:28:41 PM »
It was a F model. :huh
Fear and death in the wings, in thrall of those fallen from grace
Petty is as petty does, witness the mass disgrace.

Offline Die Hard

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Re: Black 6 crash cause?
« Reply #127 on: September 29, 2008, 07:41:28 PM »
No, if I remember correctly it was a G-2 Tropo.

It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of nonviolence to cover impotence.

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Offline Furball

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Re: Black 6 crash cause?
« Reply #128 on: September 29, 2008, 07:41:37 PM »
Wasn't Black 6 a Gustav? The Gustav had the heavy-duty canopy frame to alleviate that problem.

It is a 109G-2 Trop
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Offline glock89

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Re: Black 6 crash cause?
« Reply #129 on: September 29, 2008, 07:41:59 PM »
No, if I remember correctly it was a G-2 Tropo.

(Image removed from quote.)
Oh look like a F model.
Fear and death in the wings, in thrall of those fallen from grace
Petty is as petty does, witness the mass disgrace.

Offline Schlowy

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Re: Black 6 crash cause?
« Reply #130 on: September 30, 2008, 02:59:02 AM »
Schlowy, basically all cessna-sized aircraft with 7 times the Hp and 4 times the weight, as well as being taildraggers...are trickier to land than a ...Cessna :D
That's why the 109 had the slats, - as Gunther Rall once told me, he didn't prefer them in combat, because in a rough turn they would throw off his aim, but WITHOUT them the landing would have been unacceptably high.
(Yipppee, this sommer I tried tail draggers and also with slats, so I know what he is talking about)
As for your conspiracy theory, I completely pee on it, - and BTW there are some (and increasing) 109's flyable in the world right now.
As for the performance, there are quite some archives from the Reichsluftministreum available, - real performance tests. I can quote some nice ones from the 109G6 from 1944 if you like :D
In short, you have a case of the luftwobble virus, and it causes you to draw conclusions from the bliss of ignorance.
First part, Spit is a tail dragger, and is heavier than a 109, which is why the spit needed bigger wings.
I'll take slats, better turning to get into firing position to begin with. (not represented in AH)
From your logic, the spits bigger wings were ONLY for landing.
Gunther didn't tell you anything anyways.
Maybe there are some flyable (and increasing) but not in England.
Sources? That would be rare this game doesn't post any sources.

Comon Angus, why don't you post your game name so we can find out what you fly?
if the BoB is proof the spitty was better, then the Battle of Dieppe is proof the 109 was better.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dieppe_Raid
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Lynx got in it saying 'yawn' and then calling me 'tw@' again...
I got chat

Offline Furball

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Re: Black 6 crash cause?
« Reply #131 on: September 30, 2008, 03:16:11 AM »
Schlowy, Angus is (or was) Angus in game.  Not sure if he has flown for a while though.

IIRC he flys the Spitfire in game, probably because his uncle was an Icelandic Spitfire pilot (Thorsteinn Jonsson?) and he really has spent a fair bit of time with Gunther Rall.

It really is irrelevant what people fly as their main ride.  Most people here have an unbiased view of the aircraft and have no motive behind their opinions of them.

Just out of curiousity, where are you from Schlowy?  How old are you?
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Offline -pjk--

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Re: Black 6 crash cause?
« Reply #132 on: September 30, 2008, 03:34:07 AM »
109`s in game are ok. Not as easy to get kills as spits, but performance seems to be ok.

Ingame i am puujiiko.
Ääliö älä lyö ööliä läikkyy!!

Offline Angus

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Re: Black 6 crash cause?
« Reply #133 on: September 30, 2008, 03:57:38 AM »
Sclowy, you must be young and it shines from your lack of understanding and arrogance.

"First part, Spit is a tail dragger, and is heavier than a 109, which is why the spit needed bigger wings."
It still has somewhat lower wingloading and similar power leading to a higher ROC, but less topspeed for each hp. Did I say it was easy to land? No. Although famous for the lack of tendency of dipping a wing...

"I'll take slats, better turning to get into firing position to begin with. (not represented in AH)"
This is in AH and even visually represented. (it was already in the FM before you could see it.) I presume that you actually fly the 109 every now and then.

"From your logic, the spits bigger wings were ONLY for landing."
How on earth did you come to that. Ok, lower wingloading allows slower speed vefore stall for instance, as well as tight turns and a better ROC. Which is basically what the designer had in mind, this is a defensive aircraft.

"Gunther didn't tell you anything anyways."
Don't have a picture of us together, but I assure you I call him every now and then and ask about WW2 stuff. We also spent some time together some years back. Last autumn I planned to see him, but he had to go to an operation on the estimated day on arrival....

Maybe there are some flyable (and increasing) but not in England.
Sources? That would be rare this game doesn't post any sources.

"Comon Angus, why don't you post your game name so we can find out what you fly?"
I already did, you missed it . Fly for rooks mostly. Hehe, Furball shot me down the other day  :furious
It's a shared account so take it with a grain of salt. Name is sarcastically "Daimler". (Yes the 109 had a Daimler-Benz engine)

And here is some icing on the cake, a brand new 109 landing crash, flown by a German pilot in Berlin:
(there was another 109 crash in Germany in April AFAIK) Both landing accidents.  :cry
http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/military-aviation/44838-bf-109-crash.html
 :noid

It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline thrila

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Re: Black 6 crash cause?
« Reply #134 on: September 30, 2008, 04:44:45 AM »
Cleary Vati Molders was a british agent: It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. The Hurricane is good-natured and turns well, but its performance is decidedly inferior to that of the Me 109. It has strong stick forces and is "lazy" on the ailerons
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