Palin bashers

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

You said since the 60's. I want to see how much the teaching has went down in the last 40 years.

 
Proficency is different depending on which state you are looking.  Because of this, these scores are skewed.  Find me the national average of act and sat test scores from, lets say, 1965 through 2005.   It would be interesting to see how much teaching has declined!

I said since the sixties? Where? By the way, the word is proficiency. And ACT or SAT scores are not skewed?

YOU find those scores. Try contributing SOMETHING other than :
 

to at least ONE thread.

[SkyRock]

By the way, the word is proficiency.

but to reply, I'm sorry, what I was replying to when you joined, was the fact that the fella said since the sixties. 

Our schools have been infiltrated with liberals since the 60s and children of today are consumed with the liberal mindset because that is what they are exposed to throughout their days at school.

Do you have any data to suggest teaching is worse now than it was in 1960?  I'm betting you can't.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Got any that doesn't? Considering how often you post data, I doubt it.

[Masherbrum]

Unfortunately those numbers are heavily skewed due to the fact that in public schools have masses of kids that just don't care. It's impossible to teach someone who doesn't want to learn.

In fact, the fact that those numbers are as close as they are is kind of sad for private schools IMO.

Edit; the math part seems about right actually. Trying to convince someone with aspirations no higher than being a cashier at McDonald's and not getting hustled when they're buying their crack that they need to learn Trigonometry is an uphill battle at best.

You think Private schoolkids "Care" anymore or less as peers their own age at Public schools?   If you think they DO, think again.   

[Hangtime]

It hasn't gotten better in the intervening thirty years. As I browse through my yellowed files of clippings and articles on education I find an item from 1978.

    The Dallas (Texas) Independent School District introduced an innovative test for teachers. They were tested on "the power to think, the power to seize and express ideas, the power that is given to those who have learned how to use 'our two principal symbol systems, words and numbers.'" "Skill in words and numbers...does not alone make a good teacher, but the lack of it will almost surely make a bad one," says John Santillo, in charge of teacher hiring.

Brave words. But when the tests were implemented, tests such as the Wessman Personnel Classification Test of verbal analogy and elementary arithmetical computations, the teachers scored, on average, only slightly better than clerical workers. A rather low score was enough to pass. Yet half the teachers failed.

Then for a while we heard a lot about Piaget's studies of stages of intellectual development. Once educators realized how low teachers scored on such tests, the name 'Piaget' seemed to drop right out of the jargon of the ed-biz.

And then my files are stuffed with a dreary morass of newspaper clippings about college credit being offered for courses in frisbee, mountain biking, gourmet cooking, spiritualism, new-age philosophy, etc. etc. ad nauseum. And then came the clamor, still going on, to give equal time to so-called 'scientific creationism' if evolution is taught. Then there's pressure to ban books from the library that aren't 'politically correct.' Many schools have capitulated to such political and religious pressures, and to the clamor for a smorgasbord menu of courses. Have the schools lost all sense of their mission? Have educators no shame?

When I was in high school in the early 50s, our small-town rural school provided only academic instruction. It offered no sex education, no drug education, no aids education, no driver education. The only concession to non-academic areas was shop (for the boys), home economics (for the girls) and sports (for the entertainment of parents and community). But these non- academic intrusions were but a small fraction of the total. Our entire school (K through 12) was managed by just one person (the superintendent) who didn't even have a secretary and who also taught one course each term. And in every classroom, from kindergarten to the senior level, all the desks were bolted to the floor! Today some educators think you can't have true education unless the seats are mobile and can be pulled into a circle. Golly, our education must have really been inferior, with seats bolted down. How things have changed in fewer than 40 years!

http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/decline1.htm

Sez there, yer about as bright as a UPS shipping clerk.

Your why I want American families to have a choice. Your why I'd like to see Public Education as we know it in this country dismembered. Your why I'm glad there's a debate in american homes... we need poster boys for whats wrong, and with teachers like you on the ground as thick as dog turds on the curb in brooklyn we've got a much better chance of convincing folks that otherwise would think that if you have the job, you must be qualified for it. You are proof of that lie.

With all due respect, of course.

[Chalenge]

I said since the sixties? Where?

I said since the 60s and I was referring to the decade when the DoE came into being. The DoE obviously aided the down slide of American greatness. Now its this new world order of thinking where individualism is discouraged and group identities are nurtured. The once mighty America is now neutered from within.

[Nwbie]

Sadly enough, just flipping around on a quick search, I found the scores below. With a daughter now in college, and a son almost to high school, I've been paying real close attention. I've even looked in on classes and followed the curriculum. It sucks, and the performance is dismal. I could go looking for more data if you really like, but it is terribly depressing. My brother's wife has been teaching for 25 years now. She is a top rated teacher, and she's very good. Unfortunately, teachers like her are the exception rather than the rule. Looking back over my education, and comparing the quality to that of my children, I can honestly say the percentage of teachers that just plain suck has tripled. And we had some bad ones. And the B.S. curriculum is even worse.




Reading Proficiency, National Assessment of Educational Progress,

percentage of students scoring as "proficient".

Type of School    4th Grade    8th Grade    12th Grade
Public                   24%            26%               32%
Private          38%           47%               48%
Roman Catholic      36%               47%                   44%
Other                  41%           48%               56%

Mathematic Proficiency
Type of School                      4th Grade    8th Grade    12th Grade
Public                                      18%             23%               14%
Private: Roman Catholic       22%              32%                22%
Private: Other                           22%          43%            36%

A large percentage of fault should be laid on lack of parental involvement, I don't care what political affiliation
its sad to see how low the percentages are for private schools --1/2 are not efficient?  Only dopes pay additional money for education to get those kinds of results...  If that is what ultra right wing conservatives are clamboring for -- 50 % or less efficiency.....  I mean jeez ...did you even look at that chart?
that belongs in the fail thread...  

[Elfie]

A large percentage of fault should be laid on lack of parental involvement, I don't care what political affiliation
its sad to see how low the percentages are for private schools --1/2 are not efficient?  Only dopes pay additional money for education to get those kinds of results...  If that is what ultra right wing conservatives are clamboring for -- 50 % or less efficiency.....  I mean jeez ...did you even look at that chart?
that belongs in the fail thread...  

But look at the public schools.....they are far worse.

[Chalenge]

A large percentage of fault should be laid on lack of parental involvement, I don't care what political affiliation
its sad to see how low the percentages are for private schools --1/2 are not efficient?  Only dopes pay additional money for education to get those kinds of results...  If that is what ultra right wing conservatives are clamboring for -- 50 % or less efficiency.....  I mean jeez ...did you even look at that chart?
that belongs in the fail thread...  

Interesting you say that. I have watched for thirty years as one Republican after another runs on a platform promising the elimination of the DoE and yet they do nothing. Now bear in mind I also think most Republicans are not in fact Conservatives but more Democrat in agenda. Liberals of course want to throw a TON of money at education. Money wont solve it. Money is the worst way to try to solve any problem. But thats all that has been tried. There are no ultra right wing Conservatives in education and there never will be. They would not be tolerated by any one in todays educational system where the libs feel they have a justified monopoly (they are destroying America through that agenda).'

And yes you missed that private schools are 150% more efficient than private.

[Nwbie]

But look at the public schools.....they are far worse.

lol Elfie...I can see that...and you can see that...but do you see my point?
Why did you jump in with that ...rofl..you can't help yourself can you?

[Nwbie]

Interesting you say that. I have watched for thirty years as one Republican after another runs on a platform promising the elimination of the DoE and yet they do nothing. Now bear in mind I also think most Republicans are not in fact Conservatives but more Democrat in agenda. Liberals of course want to throw a TON of money at education. Money wont solve it. Money is the worst way to try to solve any problem. But that's all that has been tried. There are no ultra right wing Conservatives in education and there never will be. They would not be tolerated by any one in todays educational system where the libs feel they have a justified monopoly (they are destroying America through that agenda).'

And yes you missed that private schools are 150% more efficient than private.

LOL
you thumpers can't help yourself can you?
so because it is 150% more efficient..that is acceptable to you?
As your sales manager..I would be conducting interviews for the person I need who wants better efficiency ratings...not justifying low production with pointing at the other guys poor numbers, and watching you empty your desk...
Now explain again to me how the catholic nuns and lay teachers are flaming liberals...or was that the best you could come up with..
Quit kangaroo jumping in and laying down the ...oh you must see this because the liberals have or are doing this...jeez... the private schools are screwing the pooch too....or if that is acceptable to you...well...that's you...
But again..as you obviously didn't read ..or chose to ignore while frothing in panicky right wing fever....I lay a large percentage of fault on lack of parental involvement...again...regardl ess of political affiliation...

[Chalenge]

No its unacceptable and its all your fault. 

The private school I went to had no nuns in it. Of course I know why you think thats the only form of private schooling available.

[Elfie]

lol Elfie...I can see that...and you can see that...but do you see my point?
Why did you jump in with that ...rofl..you can't help yourself can you?

I see what you are saying as far as spending money for private schools when their proficiency scores are less than 50%. However, the alternative is even worse. My children have a better chance in a private school than they do in a public one. Is it worth the money? Well, that's up to each of us to decide for our own kids.

[Sox62]

What's wrong with the Jo Bro's?

Why nothing...nothing at all.

Was it difficult clearing out enough of your New Kids On The Block CD's to make room for them?

 

[SkyRock]

Sez there, yer about as bright as a UPS shipping clerk.

Your why I want American families to have a choice. Your why I'd like to see Public Education as we know it in this country dismembered. Your why I'm glad there's a debate in american homes... we need poster boys for whats wrong, and with teachers like you on the ground as thick as dog turds on the curb in brooklyn we've got a much better chance of convincing folks that otherwise would think that if you have the job, you must be qualified for it. You are proof of that lie.

With all due respect, of course.

I think you know where you can stuff that insult.  

I would like you to know, you are not required to send your children to public schools.  You have a choice to send them to private schools, or home school them.  If you do not like paying taxes to educate the rest of america's children, simply leave our country.  

By the way, I would love to see the education system if you put all UPS clerks in the classroom tomorrow.