War on Drugs gone awry in another case

[Mojava]

Legalize and tax.  Even heavily taxed, the stuff will still be fairly cheap and easy to get.  That also means reduced crime from junkies looking for enough cash for their next hit.  I don't care how badly a junkie ruins his health, as long as he doesn't rob my house to get cash for his next hit.

 Do you think weed smokers are junkies?  It's that kind of thinking that got that girl killed.

[bongaroo]

...That was meant as in you personally don't have them, or anyone in your household for that matter.  I could tell you stories from the Caribbean about drug busts but you might go into hysterics.

Most of the stories in the above provided link are about people who have died due to the war on drugs that never were even accused of having drugs.

The ones who did were killed over trivial amounts.

The "War on Drugs" is a failure on all counts and a waste of taxpayer money.  It has not curbed drug use, it has not stopped the black markets that formed to distribute illegal substances; but it has put money into the hands of dangerous people, hurt innocents, and packed our jails full of people that you and i now foot the bill for.

And Les, the girl was 23.  Her parents had no say in the matter.

[Leslie]

They sure as hell did have a say.  They should have said it.  It's not like they didn't know about it.




Les

[bongaroo]

Legally, they had no say. 

[eagl]

Do you think weed smokers are junkies?  It's that kind of thinking that got that girl killed.

Most of the weed smokers I knew growing up were junkies.  They routinely smoked weed, and it had numerous short and long term negative effects.  Their immediate judgment was impaired although just like alcoholics they thought themselves "just fine" when stoned and would drive vehicles or go to work while under the effects of drugs, and over the long run I saw their speech become increasingly slurred and their apparent intelligence dropped to the point where they became completely uninteresting as friends because it was impossible to have a discussion with them that didn't degenerate into how their last stoner experience was cool and where they were going to light up next.

So yea, I do consider weed smokers to be junkies, and those weed smokers who deny it are little different from alcoholics who deny they have a problem.  Do I give a damn either way?  No, until they impact the lives of others.  An alcoholic who doesn't drive drunk or create safety hazards is no concern to me.  But the second he hits the road, he is a hazard to be aggressively deterred.  The same goes for a weed smoker...  A pot user who does not negatively interact with others is of no concern to me, but as soon as his behavior (whether it's stealing money for his next toke or driving while stoned) impacts others, they become a target of aggressive deterrence.

Like I said, legalize it and tax the hell out of it.  And have zero tolerance for driving under the influence of any substance that increases the chance of an accident, not just alcohol.

[bongaroo]

::sluuuuuuurrred speech::yeah, one time we all got baked and ate a whole pumpkin pie, it was dank.

 

[Mojava]

 Stealing money for there next toke.....lol  That must have been some really good weed. 

 Read my lips " No New Taxes!"

[Rich46yo]

This is the kinda thing that has driven me against the war on drugs.

Its one thing for me to grab an ice cold gangster and turn him, which I have, and its another to take a college kid like that and put them in a hazardous situation they really know nothing about. To put that kid on the road, after putting the arm on her, is stupid and reckless. A gangster knows the world we are throwing him back into and more then likely has been a stone cold criminal all his life. This kid was just a college kid who like to roll a doob with friends and listen to music.

But we put guys in these units and the powers that be put pressure on them to come up with numbers to justify them being in there with their take home cars. Thats the problem with the war on drugs just like every freaking thing else in Law Enforcement. They have turned the entire show into a numbers game. A supervisor can turn on a computer, look at my pie chart for the month, and say "you jerkoff you ain't done much". To which Ill reply, "yeah and next month Ill do less cause I dont care about your numbers game and I have enough time to be in the KMA club". "So bugger off".

But these Narco units? And special units? They got to come up with numbers, and with weight, and with guns. Without them they are right back in the beat cars they fought and Politicked to get out of. The entire system breeds and encourages this type of stupidity.

And this poor kid got caught in the middle of it all. I'm sorry for her and her family. I never would have put her out there.

[Slamfire]

A quarter pound of pot and 6 pills was enough to claim it was a drug house. I've never touched drugs in my life, but that's absolutely ridiculous, to treat her like she was a big dealer.

Just to put it in perspective, 1/4lbs of decent pot is enough for 224-448 people to get very stoned.  That amount is very much the quantity a midlevel drug dealer would have on hand - it's bulk - not an amount you'd typically see some hippy type having on-hand to sell to friends.  It certainly wasn't a small personal "stash" to be used that night.

Now did the police mis-use her and bungle the sting?  Probably yes, but she wasn't the little angel they're portraying her as.  I have little sympathy for her - she got herself deep into it by breaking the law repeatedly - and she turned on her own kind to become a snitch (no honor among thieves).

[crockett]

Well I'm for legalizing pot and some of the other more "party" type drugs. However I will admit I haven't seen many stoners who were highly successful other than say musicians.

Luckily for myself, when I was a teenager, there were two older dudes on my block that smoked waaaay too much pot. You know the type, the ones that it actually did affect their mental capacity. That was enough of a lesson for me not to touch the stuff and I can say I've never touched any drugs other than alcohol.

I only support legalizing it because it's a unwinnable war and it's dumb to fight something that can't be beat. It would be better to use the resources for other things. However we have to admit drugs are big business in this country.

States and the Feds get massive budgets for the drug war, which means contractors sell them lots of cool toys. Most of the prison system is owned by private corporations these days and they get big money filling up their jails with prisoners locked up for petty drug crimes. Once again the only people that get screwed are the tax payers.

It's all a big revolving system built to milk tax dollars out of the peasants, while claiming it's all done to protect them.

[Vudak]

Just to put it in perspective, 1/4lbs of decent pot is enough for 224-448 people to get very stoned.  That amount is very much the quantity a midlevel drug dealer would have on hand - it's bulk - not an amount you'd typically see some hippy type having on-hand to sell to friends.  It certainly wasn't a small personal "stash" to be used that night.

Pot works like everything else...  You buy in bulk, you save money.  A 1/4 lb is at the high-end of something a typical person might purchase to split with friends, but certainly not unreasonable...  And definitely not something a mid-level dealer would have on hand.

Assuming she regularly sold and this wasn't a once in a while or one-time thing for a vacation or something (which could explain the 6 ecstacy pills), we're talking about a girl who probably serviced 5-6 groups of friends in a town.  Hardly mid-level at all, at least as I see it.

But yes, you are right, it wasn't a small stash and certainly not all for personal use (unless she really, really liked stale pot).

[Slamfire]

Let's also not forget who killed her.  It wasn't the police, it was these Fine Young Men:

[Charon]

Most of the weed smokers I knew growing up were junkies.

Well I'm for legalizing pot and some of the other more "party" type drugs. However I will admit I haven't seen many stoners who were highly successful other than say musicians.

Most of the ones I know are lawyers, doctors, dentists, restaurant owners, an assortment of highly regarded sales people, more IT folk than you can shake a stick at, entrepreneurs of various sorts, corporate middle management, various real estate types and a smattering of varied professions both conventional, professional and otherwise. I knew some losers who were pot heads, but I kinda get the impression they would have been losers regardless. Perhaps the whole correlation does not equal causation thing.

Just to put it in perspective, 1/4lbs of decent pot is enough for 224-448 people to get very stoned.  That amount is very much the quantity a midlevel drug dealer would have on hand - it's bulk - not an amount you'd typically see some hippy type having on-hand to sell to friends.  It certainly wasn't a small personal "stash" to be used that night.

Just to put in perspective, that is enough to supply 12-14 friendly clients with a month's worth of personal stash while paying for your own. Depending upon the volume discount (which for 1/4 lb would be minimal) the profit margin would likely be on the order of $250-$500 - not counting personal use, in a suburban market for high end product. If she sold grams at shows, etc. it could be somewhat more, but not nearly enough to live a modest life off of exclusively. What is missing though is how often she went through a 1/4 lb. But, logically, if she had much more traffic than what I outlined the quantity on hand would likely be more. I don't think any reasonable person would classify 1/4 lb as mid level, unless they went through 3-4 of those a week.

And no, I was not a dealer in a past life. But, I did stay in a Holiday Inn once And, I actually have a lot of successful, well educated hipster friends who like to have a smoke or two after they end their day.

Charon

[Vudak]

Let's also not forget who killed her.  It wasn't the police, it was these Fine Young Men:

(Image removed from quote.)

Directly, sure. 

The police didn't hold the sword, but the pen had a say in this death too.

The police are not innocent in this War on Drugs.  Indirectly they help kill many people and help ruin many lives.  Let's not pretend their methods aren't a part of the equation.

Of course, most of them are good people just trying to make a living, and I can't expect them to fall on their swords and refuse to enforce drug laws, at the cost of seeing their families go cold this winter and hungry this evening.  I know I wouldn't.

[Vudak]

Most of the ones I know are lawyers, doctors, dentists, restaurant owners, an assortment of highly regarded sales people, more IT folk than you can shake a stick at, entrepreneurs of various sorts, corporate middle management, various real estate types and a smattering of varied professions both conventional, professional and otherwise. I knew some losers who were pot heads, but I kinda get the impression they would have been losers regardless. Perhaps the whole correlation does not equal causation thing.

Yep.  One might not be put in a position to know this, until they've shown they're people who can know this, though.  Some of you who think the majority of pot users you've met are do-nothing losers would probably would be suprised at just how many of your friends that you think are clean currently smoke it, at least on occassion.

Just to put in perspective, that is enough to supply 12-14 friendly clients with a month's worth of personal stash while paying for your own. Depending upon the volume discount (which for 1/4 lb would be minimal) the profit margin would likely be on the order of $250-$500 - not counting personal use, in a suburban market for high end product. If she sold grams at shows, etc. it could be somewhat more, but not nearly enough to live a modest life off of exclusively. What is missing though is how often she went through a 1/4 lb. But, logically, if she had much more traffic than what I outlined the quantity on hand would likely be more. I don't think any reasonable person would classify 1/4 lb as mid level, unless they went through 3-4 of those a week.

Yeah, the whole thing just doesn't add up to her being a big dealer, at all.

The amount of pot, fact that a precise quantity was seized rather than "a little over" or "a little less than a 1/4lb," her education level, parents' demeanor, friend's testimony, inexperience that would help lead to her death, etc., all make me think she was just a local low-level connection helping out a few groups of friends.  I'm not even sold that the 1/4lb was a regular thing...  I don't recall from the film, but I'm assuming if she died in May she was also arrested in May or April...  4/20, graduation, spring break...  Lots of reasons the demand would suddenly go up and a person used to dealing smaller amounts would invest in a larger stash for a once a year binge.