The Head-On

[Mak333]

Exactly.

It's gambling.

There is the (good) chance that you gonna loose.

Let me rephrase what you said.  Head On's are like going All In Pre-Flop.  There is always a chance you gonna loose no matter what your hold cards.  (I lost going All In last night pre-flop with pocket Aces to a noob with a 2 6)  Using ACM and getting on the nme's 6 to kill them is like having A K suited and seeing Q J 10 of the same suit on the flop.  You can't loose.

I for one "try" to fly like it is "real life" in a way.  (kinda)  I for one don't like to gamble with my life.  A head on is a gamble.  I've seen 110g2's die to a C202 in a HO before.  Heck, i've seen 190 A8's die to collisions on C47's trying to Ho them.  With a head on, there is always decent chance you gonna loose.

Even if you "win" the HO you will probably end up damaged.  So while you may have won the gamble, the NEXT guy is gonna kill ya' easy.

In other words it's a dumb play.

Thank you for rephrasing my initial suggestion there WMLute.  It has more clarity and meaning now =)  I do somewhat disagree with you in your last sentence.  I find it hard to believe that when going up against an attack plane like an A20, IL2, and the like, with a bunch of armor and some heavy guns, that a fighter like a zero, f6f, p51, any plane that has minimal armor and a greatly reduced gun package would still be a 50-50 decision.  Most of the time I've HOed in Il2s or A20s, I come out on top and sometimes with no damage or very very little.

Thanks again for going along with my suggestion and clarification.

[Ack-Ack]

Get over it.

It happens to every one. You even backed down when I offered you a 2nd fight and said sorry. So... uh... again. Sorry. 

Back down?  Hardly, I just refuse to fight someone that lacks any skill to do anything other than HO.  By your own posts you admit that is what you usually do when you enter into a fight.  So ask yourself, why should I waste my time on a HO'tard that won't give any resemblance of a decent fight?  You are the epitomy of a skilless HO'tard that has brought the game play down in here.  Congatulations, you've just entered into Tool status.


ack-ack

[Steve]

Thank you for rephrasing my initial suggestion there WMLute.  It has more clarity and meaning now =)  I do somewhat disagree with you in your last sentence.  I find it hard to believe that when going up against an attack plane like an A20, IL2, and the like, with a bunch of armor and some heavy guns, that a fighter like a zero, f6f, p51, any plane that has minimal armor and a greatly reduced gun package would still be a 50-50 decision.  Most of the time I've HOed in Il2s or A20s, I come out on top and sometimes with no damage or very very little.

Thanks again for going along with my suggestion and clarification.

It doesn't matter if it's not 50-50. Both planes rarely come out undamaged if both fire.  Even if you "win" the HO, chances are you are not going to be in good fighting condition after the HO. This makes the claim that HO is a  "valid tactic" false.

[19kilo10(ironnite)]

If he comes head-on at me.....Im HOin.......

[WMLute]

Thank you for rephrasing my initial suggestion there WMLute.  It has more clarity and meaning now =)  I do somewhat disagree with you in your last sentence.  I find it hard to believe that when going up against an attack plane like an A20, IL2, and the like, with a bunch of armor and some heavy guns, that a fighter like a zero, f6f, p51, any plane that has minimal armor and a greatly reduced gun package would still be a 50-50 decision.  Most of the time I've HOed in Il2s or A20s, I come out on top and sometimes with no damage or very very little.

Thanks again for going along with my suggestion and clarification.

So you are ok with risking your "life" over a 50/50 decision?  60/40?  Even 70/30.  If there is a 30% chance you are going to die, is that an "acceptable" risk?  Why not learn ACM and not make it a gamble?

What about the risk of being damaged?  How long you gonna stay alive w/ that oil/rad/pilot wound hit?   Ok, you "won" the HO and now are missing an Aileron.  What hapens with the next nme that comes at you?  Your odds of living just significantly dropped.  IMHO even if you just are only damaged from the HO in the end it is what probably killed you.  (what Steve said above)

I will move the Head On from "dumb" to "desperate" move.  I was fighting Kappa the other night and never considered a HO.  We went at it for a good 15min back/forth.  Then two other bad guys came in and I ended up HO'n Kappa during the ensuing 3 on 1 and killing 'em.  It was a "desperate" move on my part to try and stay alive.

I am not saying I don't/won't ho.  It's just suuuuuper rare and only in limited situations.  (i'm ganged about to die.  nme is flying at my Goon about to drop.  squaddied flying at me w/ bad guy on his 6 seconds away from dying.)

I will say that using it as an "opening" move is "dumb".

[uberslet]

i could care less on how u fly. however dont come on the bbs blowin off that some one HO'd u when u do the same thing. i have my films from KOTH and IF you like i can send them to u showing u that NOT ONCE did i take a HO shot, matter of fact i kept doin nothing but avoid your HO attempts. callin someone else a HOtard is just like the pot callin the kettle black....

did i ever once say your didnt avoid the posible HO's? did i ever once say that i was critisizing someone else? shoe me proof that im criticizing someone for thier shots, i havnt said so much as a peep about names that i get hod by continously. you can think what you want of me betty, and keep biotching because we dont make every other player happy, but i, honestly, just lost SOOOO much respect for you. im done with you, can i have a squelch list on here?

[DrDea]

Well, for fresh new guys, it's the only time they'll ever get you in their sights, and many go on to decide that's good enough for them

  Thats it in a nut shell.Its the ONLY time they will come close to a guns solution.

[TheThang]

Essentially yeah. I personally try to avoid the HO as much as possible due to the fact that its usually a 50/50 chance of winning.   Most new pilots will do it because its the only chance they'll ever have to actually kill somebody because they never bothered to learn how to aim.

I personally SUCK at it so avoid it as much as possible (as I already stated)

and whats up guys. I'm back 

[1pLUs44]

Back down?  Hardly, I just refuse to fight someone that lacks any skill to do anything other than HO.  By your own posts you admit that is what you usually do when you enter into a fight.  So ask yourself, why should I waste my time on a HO'tard that won't give any resemblance of a decent fight?  You are the epitomy of a skilless HO'tard that has brought the game play down in here.  Congatulations, you've just entered into Tool status.


ack-ack

What makes my one time HO'ing you any different than probably the 1000 other times other people have HO'd you? Seems kinda like a sign of immaturity to me. I usually try to stay layed back. You seem to enter the 'eff you!' status when I try to be nice, as any other person.

You gonna give me my fight? I'm not overreacting like you are.

[Vudak]

Mtnman, while I think you nail it as far as newbies and why they HO (and realistically have a better chance doing so), I have to disagree with the part where you say:

I think the real reason the HO is such a sore subject is that folks are embarassed by being beaten by the simplist, most basic shot possible, before they're able to put their super-uber maneuvering skills to practice.

On any given week where I have time to fly extensively, I'm facing hundreds of hot first merges (I make it pretty clear I am not going to fire on them).  I get pinged with significant damage, or shot down, on maybe 5% of those.  That's nothing to be embarrassed about, IMO. 

Now on a week where I have time to fly extensively, that's also nothing to get upset about.  So what, grab another plane, they're free and all.

But on a week where I DON'T have time to fly extensively, that changes.  If I only have a half an hour or so to play, and I spend 6-10 minutes of that climbing to alt and getting to the bad guy, and I happen to get shot down on that particular first merge, it frustrates me, and I don't think that's an unreasonable reaction.  If it's a newbie, I keep my mouth shut.  If it's a vet, I do my best to keep it to myself, but I am human...

Let's put it this way...  I'm flying out to a Penguins game this March...  I only get to see them play at home once every few years.  If I show up and they don't show up, I'm going to be frustrated by it.  OTOH, if I was watching at home from TV, it wouldn't really bother me.

(I realize I'm talking about a hot merge here and not a true HO solution, but I'll bet a large portion of the complaints are about the hot merge in the first place, and the HO is half my fault anyway).

[Boxboy]

Correct and wrong.

Correct: The head on WAS taught in certain limited plane matchups.  (i.e. p38 vs. zeke. bombers with no nose gunner etc...)  For the most part this does not apply to flying/fighting in AcesHigh where putting yourself in front of the nme guns is just plain stupid.

Wrong: As was already stated (this thread? other thread?) turning into your attacker isn't advocating a Head On firing pass.  Not sure why you think it means this, but far from it.  It has to do with position.

What I was saying Lute was that alot of guys when turning into the attack will take the HO shot if presented, the problem with our discussion of HO's is that most of the guys think ANY front aspect shot is a Head On when it is not (as I am sure you know).  There is a difference in a furball when you break turn to avoid one guy and find his buddy flying right at you, you instintively fire on him in self defense.  On th other hand if you avoid and intentionally go for the front aspect shot because you have a cannon bird and think you can win it, is another issue (plane vs plane thing).

[gpwurzel]

Cos I've got no other chance - so if ya get in front of me guns, I'm ashooting

Ner


 

Wurzel

[BiPoLaR]

I'm not that bad of a shot! I bet once! Because after then, you'd just turn around and kill me! Unless I was in a Hurri 2c (which I havent flown since January or Febuary), I doubt I coulda pulled off 5 HOs. PM me the film plz  

You know what fight im talking about...i was fighting 3 of yas...you and TwoDogs were ho monsters in the gang fest.

you said. "sorry BP,if i knew it was you i wouldnt have shot"
remember now? 

[1pLUs44]

Oh yea, I do... Back in June right?

[Sunka]

I Ho'ed the cr@p out of a guy last night,he was in a 51 about 15 k at speed i was in a jug about 5 k not yet up to speed, he kept turning into me and i gladly turned nose on him and blew my 50's off till he went boom.To be fair the guy sucked i later tried to fight him one on one co alt and he ran 25 miles so he could run me through his ack 4 times,till i got bored and went home.And as bad as i want to shout out his name to the world i wont.