money and credit out of thin air

[SkyRock]

Well, honestly... the average American is too stupid to know if they are getting fleeced or not.  For a country with nearly no social mobility, we still have a lot of people with big dreams.  At some point those folks will wake up, then you might see some things change.  Granted, it won't be the sort of change you (or I, for that matter) will enjoy.  I'll have a solidly comfortable lifestyle making ~100-120k a year, but I'll never make it into the real wealthy class.  Most of the benefits of the economic growth for the past 30 years have gone to the top 1% of earners - and they really don't pay much in taxes.  The 'comfortably wealthy' pay the lions share of taxes in this country, the really wealthy make their money in other ways, and can hide it fairly creatively.

whoa!  Exactly.

[SkyRock]

I still think we're a ways away from the revolution. As long as you can get American Idol on basic cable, and can afford basic cable, there's just not the will.

Internet will decide which way we go, as soon as we realize we're all going the same way.  The two party system will die a political French revolution.

[MORAY37]

You're silly if you think oil will go over $200 a barrel.  Their would be another war very soon if it does.

Why not?  It's not like the rest of the world is paying it.... the price of oil is based in dollars.  Other currencies are fairing quite well..... and don't care how high, (in dollars) oil goes per barrel. (because their currency is outpacing the inflation and devaluation of the dollar, meaning oil is getting cheaper for them)  The fact that the per barrel cost of oil went to 150$ prior,  tells me that there is no real "ceiling" in price.

As far as another war....you really look at that, one of the reasons we got into this crapstorm in the first place, as a viable, reasonable way out? We start another war, be prepared for all that debt we've sold off overseas to suddenly get called in...and for our way of funding this new war, to be crippled.  We've been effectively neutered by our own ineptitude and stupidity.  The only way out is off the crack.... we need to get off oil NOW, no matter what damage it presents in the short term.

[FrodeMk3]

Why not?  It's not like the rest of the world is paying it.... the price of oil is based in dollars.  Other currencies are fairing quite well..... and don't care how high, (in dollars) oil goes per barrel. (because their currency is outpacing the inflation and devaluation of the dollar, meaning oil is getting cheaper for them)  The fact that the per barrel cost of oil went to 150$ prior,  tells me that there is no real "ceiling" in price.

As far as another war....you really look at that, one of the reasons we got into this crapstorm in the first place, as a viable, reasonable way out? We start another war, be prepared for all that debt we've sold off overseas to suddenly get called in...and for our way of funding this new war, to be crippled.  We've been effectively neutered by our own ineptitude and stupidity.  The only way out is off the crack.... we need to get off oil NOW, no matter what damage it presents in the short term.

Moray...I really think that what Bodhi was trying to say was, that if oil were to go that high, the symptom of the price would be another war. Which might be true, however...It might not be the same kind of war we had in Iraq. It might be much more bloodier, much more diffucult for the U.S., depending on how many players' are involved in that scenario.

[MORAY37]

Moray...I really think that what Bodhi was trying to say was, that if oil were to go that high, the symptom of the price would be another war. Which might be true, however...It might not be the same kind of war we had in Iraq. It might be much more bloodier, much more diffucult for the U.S., depending on how many players' are involved in that scenario.

I disagree with what you think he meant.  Clearly, his post said this...

Their would be another war very soon if it does.

Another war.....IF it does.

Implied cause for the stated effect.  He clearly means that we would go to war somewhere else if oil reached over 200$ per barrel.  Unfortunately, too many people here believe wars help battered economies.  (ask the Japanese how that worked out for THEM)  Until this changes, the same thought will pervade.

[FrodeMk3]

I disagree with what you think he meant.  Clearly, his post said this...

Another war.....IF it does.

Implied cause for the stated effect.  He clearly means that we would go to war somewhere else if oil reached over 200$ per barrel.  Unfortunately, too many people here believe wars help battered economies.  (ask the Japanese how that worked out for THEM)  Until this changes, the same thought will pervade.

We still haven't seen the total effects' of the bailout-meaning, the impact of that huge gov't. expenditure, on top of the ones' we are already commited to...namely, Iraq and Afghanistan. It might sour americans' on war for quite some time.

Take a look at the link I threw up in the thread titled "America's Outrageous War Economy" for an example.

[Hangtime]

11.3 Trillion dollar deficit + 700 Billion (estimated to top a trillion) Bailout = Inflation.

Huge Inflation.



500 Bucks for a hotdog and a beer at the ballpark type inflation.

[A8TOOL]

"Government equity in firms receiving assistance, in rough proportion to the amount of aid extended"

word


You lend money to a bankrupt company - you own the company.


What's the betting it actually happens this way?

The Federal reserve is no more Federal than Federal Express but in 1913 Woodrow Wilson signed the Federal Reserve Act. This Act gave the Federal reserve bank (which is a small part of the largest business in the world), permission to manage our money for us.

It is a privately owned corporation with 12 owners. Those 12 owners are employees of part of an even larger more powerful entity. They're the same powers that help create currency unions all over the world. Their largest success has been in the Euro and over time, will create the Amero. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_currency_union


http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=Amero&ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&sa=X&oi=video_result_group&resnum=4&ct=title#
  

For something even scarier to watch take a look at how and why money was created, how it can be manipulated and where it's going.


It's hard to say it won't happen when it already has.



http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-466210540567002553&ei=ZHbYSIOoMKGI-gGbj-C4Ag&q=history+of+money



The funny more simple minded version

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5527438843357885025&ei=ZHbYSIOoMKGI-gGbj-C4Ag&q=history+of+money&vt=lf


in the future it gets worse......... but like the generations before you, for now we won't think about that. Lets just keep focused on the currant problems of making ends meet, sending our kids to school and trying to making sure our 401k's can bury us properly since it's out of our hands and there's nothing we can do about it anyway.
 
So you and your parents have been programmed to think

[Hangtime]

Yup. Nothin we can do..

we're all bozo's on this bus.

[SkyRock]

SR<--agrees so much, he's troll less.


Palin doesnt brush her teeth.....there I feel better.






 

[straffo]

Well, unless you count the 35% of the TOTAL bill

does it prevent them to have a better life than 99% of the American ?

[Bodhi]

I disagree with what you think he meant.  Clearly, his post said this...

Another war.....IF it does.

Implied cause for the stated effect.  He clearly means that we would go to war somewhere else if oil reached over 200$ per barrel.  Unfortunately, too many people here believe wars help battered economies.  (ask the Japanese how that worked out for THEM)  Until this changes, the same thought will pervade.

What I implied would be that $200 a barrel would trigger another war.  I never said it would be started by the US. 

Moray, you should look past the end of your nose and realize that the big ole mean and evil US does not need to start a war for their to be another war.  Take a look at whats going on in South Ostetia.  If you think that war is about liberating a bunch of poor souls from evil and oppressive Georgia, you are really fooling yourself.  That little war is about nothing but a pipeline. 

Why do you suppose Iran is persisting in Uranium enrichment?  It's about power to them.  With a nuke, their option increase 100 fold.  They can then easily close the Straits of Hormuz and again hold the world to ransom whenever their islamofacist leaders want to. 

What would $200/barrel oil mean in the US?  What do you suppose diesel will cost then?  $7 or $8 a gallon?  How many companies will fold because they can no longer sell their products or services?  Just what do you suppose will happen in the US when people can not afford to eat and a large majority of people are forced out on the streets because they can not pay for what they have?  You really think that they might just pat ole Mr. Change on the back?  Their will be outright open conflict here in our streets.  People will kill each other if it means survival. 

One last thing for you to think about.  Take another look at all this from a financial aspect, and figure in another important factor.  The amount of American debt that is owned by Foreign Banks, Investment Houses and Foreign Funds.  If this economy were to collapse, how do you suppose they might feel about that?  I can guarantee they aren't going to be all smiles.  Their belief in America's ability to recover was what led most of them to buy up this debt to begin with.  A collapse will render their investments worthless. 

[CAP1]

I think the only real effect the 'average Joe' will notice is the price of oil going north of $200 a barrel, taking the price of gasoline up with it.  Food will probably inflate as well, but I don't think many other things will, the companies will just cut costs by reducing jobs.

if oil goes up, so does gas, and deisel. if gas and deisel go up, everything else will. there is nothing sold to you that is not touched at some point by a truck. if they have to pay more for their fuel, they have to pass that cost on to the company they're shipping it for, and they in turn pass it onto us in the form of higher prices.

[bongaroo]

What I implied would be that $200 a barrel would trigger another war.  I never said it would be started by the US. 

Moray, you should look past the end of your nose and realize that the big ole mean and evil US does not need to start a war for their to be another war.  Take a look at whats going on in South Ostetia.  If you think that war is about liberating a bunch of poor souls from evil and oppressive Georgia, you are really fooling yourself.  That little war is about nothing but a pipeline. 

Why do you suppose Iran is persisting in Uranium enrichment?  It's about power to them.  With a nuke, their option increase 100 fold.  They can then easily close the Straits of Hormuz and again hold the world to ransom whenever their islamofacist leaders want to. 

What would $200/barrel oil mean in the US?  What do you suppose diesel will cost then?  $7 or $8 a gallon?  How many companies will fold because they can no longer sell their products or services?  Just what do you suppose will happen in the US when people can not afford to eat and a large majority of people are forced out on the streets because they can not pay for what they have?  You really think that they might just pat ole Mr. Change on the back?  Their will be outright open conflict here in our streets.  People will kill each other if it means survival. 

One last thing for you to think about.  Take another look at all this from a financial aspect, and figure in another important factor.  The amount of American debt that is owned by Foreign Banks, Investment Houses and Foreign Funds.  If this economy were to collapse, how do you suppose they might feel about that?  I can guarantee they aren't going to be all smiles.  Their belief in America's ability to recover was what led most of them to buy up this debt to begin with.  A collapse will render their investments worthless. 

Oil $200 a barrel?  Well it hurts when the dollar is so craptastic.  Encourage everyone you know to own the most fuel effecient vehicle possible, if your in a city buy a solid bike.  I've been carpooling for a couple months and I've already saved almost $100.

Food to eat?  Go local!  Local food leaves your supply less up to the whims of the oil markets.  Hell, go organic and you'll know your food isn't using oil based fertilizers.

And last but not least, the good old USA still has the best credit rating in the world.  People aren't worried about us not paying our debts.  I'd rather we as a country not owe another country 1 cent; I'll continue to vote for people who follow this thinking too.

[Bodhi]

Oil $200 a barrel?  Well it hurts when the dollar is so craptastic.  Encourage everyone you know to own the most fuel effecient vehicle possible, if your in a city buy a solid bike.  I've been carpooling for a couple months and I've already saved almost $100.

Food to eat?  Go local!  Local food leaves your supply less up to the whims of the oil markets.  Hell, go organic and you'll know your food isn't using oil based fertilizers.

And last but not least, the good old USA still has the best credit rating in the world.  People aren't worried about us not paying our debts.  I'd rather we as a country not owe another country 1 cent; I'll continue to vote for people who follow this thinking too.

I already own the most fuel efficient vehicle I need without going out and spending more money to buy another more expensive POS that I can not maintain myself. 

Go local?  That's all fine and dandy when you consider small urban centers surrounded by plenty of space and the climate that favors a long growing season.  What do you suppose large urban centers like Boston, NYC, Seattle, LA, San Diego, San Francisco, Chicago, et al. are going to do when it comes to growing locally?  It's not frigging possible.  So we are back to spending large sums of money to buy fuel to move goods and animals generally grown many miles away from urban centers to feed these people.

If you think the US has a fantastic credit rating AND that people aren't worried about us not being able to pay back our debts, then please tell us why the foreign markets are still tanking over worries surrounding this buy out plan and it's possible implications on their market.