Author Topic: money and credit out of thin air  (Read 1012 times)

Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: money and credit out of thin air
« Reply #30 on: September 23, 2008, 09:01:56 AM »
11.3 Trillion dollar deficit + 700 Billion (estimated to top a trillion) Bailout = Inflation.

Huge Inflation.

(Image removed from quote.)

500 Bucks for a hotdog and a beer at the ballpark type inflation.



We will never be rid of our deficit/debt until there is no more central bank in control of our money supply.
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Offline john9001

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Re: money and credit out of thin air
« Reply #31 on: September 23, 2008, 09:48:29 AM »
oil at $200 a barrel, the railroads will have to buy more freight cars, they may even start hauling people again.

Offline bongaroo

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Re: money and credit out of thin air
« Reply #32 on: September 23, 2008, 11:22:28 AM »
I already own the most fuel efficient vehicle I need without going out and spending more money to buy another more expensive POS that I can not maintain myself. 

Go local?  That's all fine and dandy when you consider small urban centers surrounded by plenty of space and the climate that favors a long growing season.  What do you suppose large urban centers like Boston, NYC, Seattle, LA, San Diego, San Francisco, Chicago, et al. are going to do when it comes to growing locally?  It's not frigging possible.  So we are back to spending large sums of money to buy fuel to move goods and animals generally grown many miles away from urban centers to feed these people.

If you think the US has a fantastic credit rating AND that people aren't worried about us not being able to pay back our debts, then please tell us why the foreign markets are still tanking over worries surrounding this buy out plan and it's possible implications on their market.

Good for you on your vehicle, sorry if you can't maintain it yourself.  

Every major city I have ever visited has had a local food co-op.  I'm sure if we want to do some research we'll quickly find them operating in any of the cities you mention. Encouraging local crops is just one step to take and obviously some products will never be available locally. If you took my suggestion to mean that local foods is the end all be all solution to our dependence problem, I'm sorry that I've misled you. But dismissing it entirely is ludicrous.

And I'll eat my words. The USA does not have the worlds best sovereign credit rating at this time; we are now 10Th of 128 and possibly still falling in the list.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_rating

Rail is a great option that unfortunately is often overlooked.  While we as a nation have invested heavily in highways our rails have been neglected, at least nationally.  Rail business is doing much better as the cost of fuel has risen though.  Freight on the rails uses fuel much more efficiently than a truck.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2008, 11:34:04 AM by bongaroo »
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Offline JAGED

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Re: money and credit out of thin air
« Reply #33 on: September 23, 2008, 11:24:45 AM »
He said Ludacris...   :lol

"I post facts.   If I post anything thats not a fact, I ask if people know whether it is fact or drivel first..."    SkyRock (ROFL LMFAO)

Offline A8TOOL

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Re: money and credit out of thin air
« Reply #34 on: September 23, 2008, 12:25:52 PM »
We will never be rid of our deficit/debt until there is no more central bank in control of our money supply.

I have a hard time believing it's true because it sounds so outrageous but some economists have said we are still paying interest on money borrowed to fight ourselves in the civil war. History does show, the same guys who funded us for that are the same guys who own the Fed. As with any banker they want collateral but there was no way our forefathers would let a banker hold a Deed on the US. The bankers were smart and know how to take advantage of disparity.

In July 1862, during the Civil War, President Lincoln and Congress created the office of Commissioner of Internal Revenue and enacted an income tax to pay war expenses (see Revenue Act of 1862).

Later and after many attempts The Central Banks of Europe with the cooperation of our Government officials and banks finally were able to open a single central bank in America and opened 11 more. They placed a few corrupt American politicians into the main office to make it seem more like it was a government ran entity and called it the FEDERAL Reserve.  They already knew there was no way America would put up America as collateral for money borrowed so they (the Fed) manipulated the Government and IRS to fit their needs as they had in the past.  The IRS is and always will be The Federal Reserves collection agency......unless the people protest against it and that's not going to happen. The fed would crush us.



The fed decides our economic future not the people. Whether we succeed or fail is there decision alone. There is no greater power on Earth than money and Money Managers sit at the very pinnacle of society. It does not matter who you are... King,  Queen or President, the pen can destroy faster than a sword.  

I read this somewhere, The money of it's owner controls the world....or something like that.


  
    



« Last Edit: September 23, 2008, 12:27:57 PM by A8TOOL »

Offline SkyRock

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Re: money and credit out of thin air
« Reply #35 on: September 23, 2008, 12:30:10 PM »
I link you a vid when I get home, tool, you'll like it. :aok
I hate the federal reserve, thieving sons of HOs.

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Offline A8TOOL

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Re: money and credit out of thin air
« Reply #36 on: September 23, 2008, 12:54:40 PM »
Going by these charts Gas should  be in the $7.00 a gallon range.

In August 2005 a barrel of oil was about 60 dollars. The price of gas in Chicago was about $3.00.

In July of 2008 oil reached 147.00 a barrel but the price of gas was about $4.30 so the chart says but Taxes made it higher here.


147 /  by 60 =2.45   $3.00 X 2.45 = $7.35


looks like I'm not getting screwed at all.... :rofl












Offline Bodhi

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Re: money and credit out of thin air
« Reply #37 on: September 23, 2008, 01:12:26 PM »
Good for you on your vehicle, sorry if you can't maintain it yourself.  

I can maintain my own vehicle, I refuse to buy something that I will not be able to maintain such as some electric POS that will not tow an aircraft or haul an R-2800 in the bed.


Every major city I have ever visited has had a local food co-op.  I'm sure if we want to do some research we'll quickly find them operating in any of the cities you mention. Encouraging local crops is just one step to take and obviously some products will never be available locally. If you took my suggestion to mean that local foods is the end all be all solution to our dependence problem, I'm sorry that I've misled you. But dismissing it entirely is ludicrous.

And I'll eat my words. The USA does not have the worlds best sovereign credit rating at this time; we are now 10Th of 128 and possibly still falling in the list.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_rating

Rail is a great option that unfortunately is often overlooked.  While we as a nation have invested heavily in highways our rails have been neglected, at least nationally.  Rail business is doing much better as the cost of fuel has risen though.  Freight on the rails uses fuel much more efficiently than a truck.


The fact of the matter remains that most major metropolitan areas will not be able to be self sufficient when it comes to food, or most commonly used goods without serious relaxation of local EPA, Worker's Rights, and FDA regulations.  Not to mention, that unless you are going to turn that urban center's workforce into manual labor, you still have to have the equipment necessary to farm.  The amount of land needed to support Chicago alone is massive.  The price of a barrel of oil going over $200 will simply be too much for most economies to handle.  Rail, while a nice alternative to over the road hauling is not the alternative.  You stilll have to have trucks to get items to and from the rail depot and from the depot to the final destination.

As I said before, a barrel of oil going over $200 will cause a war.  My bet is it will be global. 
I regret doing business with TD Computer Systems.

Offline A8TOOL

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Re: money and credit out of thin air
« Reply #38 on: September 23, 2008, 01:22:38 PM »
by the look of the chart even if oil goes to 200 the market will only charge what we can bear. In the mean time greed takes over.

Also As I understand, it's the future's traders that make the oil price go up not the demand.

The supply stay's fairly constant even in a event like IKE or premonitions of war. even in War it seems supply did not dwindle far from what it's output was. A break in a pipe or a storm on the way sets the future price of oil. Like taxes, once they see you can handle it, it never comes back down.

Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: money and credit out of thin air
« Reply #39 on: September 23, 2008, 01:31:28 PM »
I link you a vid when I get home, tool, you'll like it. :aok
I hate the federal reserve, thieving sons of HOs.
This video?
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-515319560256183936&ei=hTXZSOLjMYfq-gHUsf2yAg&q=the+money+masters&hl=en
gavagai
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Offline bongaroo

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Re: money and credit out of thin air
« Reply #40 on: September 23, 2008, 02:40:39 PM »
I already own the most fuel efficient vehicle I need without going out and spending more money to buy another more expensive POS that I can not maintain myself. 

Sorry, didn't read this statement correctly the first time.  I took you to mean that you had a high mpg vehicle that you could not maintain on your own.

I can maintain my own vehicle, I refuse to buy something that I will not be able to maintain such as some electric POS that will not tow an aircraft or haul an R-2800 in the bed.

Well, if you've already gotten in your mind that the product offered is a POS, whichever product you've looked at, I doubt we'll get very far into this convo.  People with large weights to be hauled are obviously going to be saddled with larger, less fuel effecient vehicles.

Quote
The fact of the matter remains that most major metropolitan areas will not be able to be self sufficient when it comes to food, or most commonly used goods without serious relaxation of local EPA, Worker's Rights, and FDA regulations.  Not to mention, that unless you are going to turn that urban center's workforce into manual labor, you still have to have the equipment necessary to farm.  The amount of land needed to support Chicago alone is massive.  The price of a barrel of oil going over $200 will simply be too much for most economies to handle.

Where there is a will, there is a way.  If we as consumers create the demand for local food, it will be fufilled.  Will our food supplies change much?  Probably not.  At least not with the crazy subsidies we hand out yearly.  If we wish to keep discussing the merits of encouraging local foods, I suggest we move it to another thread.

Quote
Rail, while a nice alternative to over the road hauling is not the alternative.  You stilll have to have trucks to get items to and from the rail depot and from the depot to the final destination.

Actually, its the best alternative we have available.  Most of the infrastructure, as far as right-of-way and major industrial connections are there.  Improving what we already have is mostly all thats needed.  Well, and a system to seperate the freight from the passenger timetables to make rail travel appealing.

With more reliance on rail we'd be taking the large cross country trucks off the roads.  They would be replaced with local drivers making the deliveries from the local depots and vice versa.  Jobs still there, local now infact.  Goods still delivered.  And it would take less fuel, helping to ease our reliance on foreign evergy.

Quote
As I said before, a barrel of oil going over $200 will cause a war.  My bet is it will be global. 

Doubt it.  Unless we're the ones starting it.  Everyone else is making money off it being so expensive.
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Offline A8TOOL

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Re: money and credit out of thin air
« Reply #42 on: September 23, 2008, 04:32:50 PM »
I seen those movies over a year ago and urge anyone reading this thread to do the same.  I found only two minor inaccuracies in their time line in the old film but as you've said they nailed the Fed on spot.

Even though it breaks none of their rules YOUTUBE has removed the movie many times but keeps popping up. The internet is a powerful tool that can not be controlled in the way our main stream media has been since somewhere around WWI 

The new license's that we were supposed to get in May 2008 have been put on hold by court order but there is no doubt, we will have them. Big money assures it.

There next round of legal attack will still concern safety while turning it into a Police issue. If you have a few traffic violations on your record or more serious issues, be prepared to receive one in the next couple years. You'll be forced to get them if you want to drive.

Testing of implanted chips has been underway for quite sometime using criminals. I just can't fathom the thought of people wanting them..the cards I can see but should be voluntary. My blood type and contact # is in my wallet ready.

Many phones today have tracking devices in them and that's enough I think. I don't need the cops pulling me over at random as I pass because I used to like to fight and got caught with some weed as a kid.

Offline Bodhi

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Re: money and credit out of thin air
« Reply #43 on: September 23, 2008, 04:41:42 PM »
Sorry, didn't read this statement correctly the first time.  I took you to mean that you had a high mpg vehicle that you could not maintain on your own.

Well, if you've already gotten in your mind that the product offered is a POS, whichever product you've looked at, I doubt we'll get very far into this convo.  People with large weights to be hauled are obviously going to be saddled with larger, less fuel effecient vehicles.

Where there is a will, there is a way.  If we as consumers create the demand for local food, it will be fufilled.  Will our food supplies change much?  Probably not.  At least not with the crazy subsidies we hand out yearly.  If we wish to keep discussing the merits of encouraging local foods, I suggest we move it to another thread.

Actually, its the best alternative we have available.  Most of the infrastructure, as far as right-of-way and major industrial connections are there.  Improving what we already have is mostly all thats needed.  Well, and a system to seperate the freight from the passenger timetables to make rail travel appealing.

With more reliance on rail we'd be taking the large cross country trucks off the roads.  They would be replaced with local drivers making the deliveries from the local depots and vice versa.  Jobs still there, local now infact.  Goods still delivered.  And it would take less fuel, helping to ease our reliance on foreign evergy.

Doubt it.  Unless we're the ones starting it.  Everyone else is making money off it being so expensive.

bongaroo,
Every hybrid, or Electric alternative I have looked at is nothing more than a POS band aid until the next new and truly usable technology is unveiled.  They are all underpowered, and simply not fit to handle the work load we would put on them. 

As for the local self sufficiency, regardless of their being a will there will be a way is BS.  It would be physically impossible to feed all the people in the greater New York area based on just what they can grow in the surrounding area.  You have to have tons of land that is capable of producing large quantities of food.  Soylent Green might be an idea to try there though....  :devil

As for rail, all I know about the infrastructure is what I hear from friends that work for UP.  They say that there is not enough rail space for the increased demand that high diesel would cause.  It is again, just another band aid.  I personally like rail, but it is definitely not the solution.
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Offline lasersailor184

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Re: money and credit out of thin air
« Reply #44 on: September 23, 2008, 06:00:22 PM »
I still think we're a ways away from the revolution. As long as you can get American Idol on basic cable, and can afford basic cable, there's just not the will.

The best that can be hoped for is an increasing but incremental shift away from the Washington BS.

A short term revolution that might be doable by 2012, as has been discussed on and off, is a drop the incumbent midterm election. That is something that I believe could be organized and that could have some shock and awe in Washington if it even its 10-20 percent of incumbents.

Charon

"New Management, same as the old."

Voting against the incumbent is just silly.  You think it really means anything?


If we're lucky, Obama will stupidly encroach on the 2nd amendment.  Then you'll see some fireworks.
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8.) Lasersailor 73 "Will lead the impending revolution from his keyboard"