Author Topic: money and credit out of thin air  (Read 1009 times)

Offline SkyRock

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money and credit out of thin air
« on: September 22, 2008, 04:11:54 PM »
and charging you for it........



Here's what RP has to say about it:


http://www.youtube.com/v/fI4tVPXlQsM&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&fs=1


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Offline JAGED

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Re: money and credit out of thin air
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2008, 04:16:52 PM »
"I post facts.   If I post anything thats not a fact, I ask if people know whether it is fact or drivel first..."    SkyRock (ROFL LMFAO)

Offline SD67

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Re: money and credit out of thin air
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2008, 04:21:58 PM »
Why a troll? This is a very valid concern.
You'd be nuts if you didn't think they would be making the taxpayer foot the bill.
I think it's going to push inflation through the roof and come back to bit you in the arse.
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Offline Urchin

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Re: money and credit out of thin air
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2008, 04:24:35 PM »
I think the only real effect the 'average Joe' will notice is the price of oil going north of $200 a barrel, taking the price of gasoline up with it.  Food will probably inflate as well, but I don't think many other things will, the companies will just cut costs by reducing jobs.

Offline Bodhi

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Re: money and credit out of thin air
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2008, 04:39:26 PM »
I think the only real effect the 'average Joe' will notice is the price of oil going north of $200 a barrel, taking the price of gasoline up with it.  Food will probably inflate as well, but I don't think many other things will, the companies will just cut costs by reducing jobs.

You're silly if you think oil will go over $200 a barrel.  Their would be another war very soon if it does.
I regret doing business with TD Computer Systems.

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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Re: money and credit out of thin air
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2008, 04:58:32 PM »
Why a troll? This is a very valid concern.
You'd be nuts if you didn't think they would be making the taxpayer foot the bill.
I think it's going to push inflation through the roof and come back to bit you in the arse.

Why a troll? Ever heard "The Boy Who Cried Wolf"?
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

SaVaGe


Offline Charon

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Re: money and credit out of thin air
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2008, 05:47:29 PM »
Even though I disagree with a variety of Paul's positions, he was the only candidate who could have started to turn the ship around. The only candidate for real change, and about the only true outsider in Washington today. Crazy old Ron Paul.

Now, most American's no longer undersand the small govt. message. They find it frightening -- so called conservatives and liberals. He would have had some tough challenges even if he could have been elected. Actually, this crisis might very well have allowed him to push through change, but that ship has sailed.

So, we are stuck with two conventional Washington duds. Of the two, I obviously see Obama as the bigger dud. McCain, at the end of his Washington career, might actually work more for the country than himself. Can't say I have the same trust for Daley machine hack and top Fannie Freddie cash recipient Obama. I wonder how his expansive social programs are going to fly now? Does he have the guts to say no to his party? Didn't in Illinois, that's for sure.

I know it's that old sentimentality spiel, but anyone who would turn down an early trip home from Hanoi on principal might just rise again to the challenge. Still, not much to go on just yet -- no more from a solutions standpoint than Obama. But then, no one seems to know what to do except for Paulson, who may in fact be screwing us over even more with his Wall Street insider Constitution-be-dammed proposal. Limited time offer, call NOW!

So yeah, this sucks. But, maybe it's what we need to finally get some real change in office. Maybe an Obama presidency would be best, right about now. 4 years to deflate the Obama/Democratic myth might be worth the pain, just like it took a Bush to free many Republican minds emotionally tied to a party that ceased to exist some years ago. It's the uniparty folks, and us poor peons don't count and haven't for a while.

Given Obama's political backers (Kennedy, Pelosi, Soros, Durbin) and the party leadership in general, combined with anything approaching hard times, I seriously doubt you will see the much needed, and I'm sure demanded, fiscal restraint. He just won't be able to do it. Just say no, Barry! But, that's not why the party picked him over Hillery. Hell, they're already working to have me pay off the bad loan recipient morons who failed to understand how an ARM works in addition to the robber barons. How many extra billions to reward people who made a bad decisions and lived over their means while I was responsible and conservative in my personal life? Who the hell is going to knock a point or two off my 15 year, modest (40 percent down), low fixed rate loan on an affordable old construction house? Hey, you mean I could have been irresponsible and got a bigger house in the bargin -- damn! This socialism is great stuff I guess. Where's my frickin handout!

So yeah. Ron's popular now that he doesn't stand in the way of the chosen one (or any of the other chosen ones fielded by the uniparty). McCain might be a better short term leader, but an Obama presidency might be just what the Democrat coolaid drinkers need to see the other side of the great Washington truth. If enough of us take the red pill in 4 or 8 years, we may actually be able to get our country back.

Quote
Morpheus: I can see it in your eyes. You have the look of a man who accepts what he sees because he is expecting to wake up. Ironically, this is not far from the truth. Do you believe in fate, Neo?

Neo: No.

Morpheus: Why not?

Neo: Because I don't like the idea that I'm not in control of my life.

Morpheus: I know exactly what you mean. Let me tell you why you're here. You're here because you know something. What you know you can't explain. But you feel it. You've felt it your entire life. That there's something wrong with the world. You don't know what it is but it's there, like a splinter in your mind driving you mad. It is this feeling that has brought you to me. Do you know what I'm talking about?

Neo: The Matrix?

Morpheus: Do you want to know what IT is? The Matrix is everywhere. It is all around us, even now in this very room. You can see it when you look out your window or when you turn on your television. You can feel it when you go to work, when you go to church, when you pay your taxes. It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth.

Neo: What truth?

Morpheus: That you are a slave, Neo. Like everyone else you were born into bondage, born into a prison that you cannot smell or taste or touch. A prison for your mind.... Unfortunately, no one can be told what the Matrix is. You have to see it for yourself. This is your last chance. After this there is no turning back. You take the blue pill, the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill, you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.... Remember, all I'm offering is the truth, nothing more....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_8Zq_iWuFg&feature=related
« Last Edit: September 22, 2008, 06:11:58 PM by Charon »

Offline Toad

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Re: money and credit out of thin air
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2008, 06:02:49 PM »
I rarely, if ever, agree with stuff from this site but I do read it. You have to try to look at both sides even if it is nauseating at times.

This particular one has a fairly good solution.

http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=paulsons_folly

Paulson's Folly

Quote

What should Congress demand in return for this deal?

Government equity in firms receiving assistance, in rough proportion to the amount of aid extended.

Limits on executive compensation paid by any firm receiving the public aid.

A recapture of the cost to the government, to be extracted from the firm's future profits.

A six-month sunset provision, so that the treasury secretary's bailout authority would expire by next April 1.

Any extension would be conditional on across-the-board re-regulation of financial institutions of all types.

Creation of a small independent board, which must review and approve Paulson's proposed deals.

A narrower treatment of court challenges to Paulson's actions.

A parallel program to refinance sub-prime mortgage loans and to provide funding to municipalities and community-based nonprofits to acquire, restore, and repopulate foreclosed properties.

At least $200 billion of new economic stimulus, in the form of aid to states, cities, and towns, for infrastructure rebuilding, more generous unemployment compensation and retraining benefits.


There has to be some accountability and oversight in this deal if they are going to strongarm my family and take my money to bail out idiots and thieves in order to maintain the economic system.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline A8TOOL

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Re: money and credit out of thin air
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2008, 06:40:33 PM »
Yep, the Federal Reserve is based on power, control and greed. The money they lend is just computerized digits that have no backing. It's money that won't exist until you pay for it.

Who here thinks the Fed is a privately owned corporation?

Who thinks it's part of our American Government like lets say the Treasury?

Who tells the treasury what to print? What is the money backed up by?
« Last Edit: September 22, 2008, 06:59:54 PM by A8TOOL »

Offline Scherf

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Re: money and credit out of thin air
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2008, 07:51:29 PM »
"Government equity in firms receiving assistance, in rough proportion to the amount of aid extended"

word


You lend money to a bankrupt company - you own the company.


What's the betting it actually happens this way?
... missions were to be met by the commitment of alerted swarms of fighters, composed of Me 109's and Fw 190's, that were strategically based to protect industrial installations. The inferior capabilities of these fighters against the Mosquitoes made this a hopeless and uneconomical effort. 1.JD KTB

Offline Urchin

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Re: money and credit out of thin air
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2008, 07:56:30 PM »
You're silly if you think oil will go over $200 a barrel.  Their would be another war very soon if it does.

Oil is priced in dollars.  Dollars will become the next best thing to worthless once this goes through.  Put it this way - the U.S. is a debtor nation... would you want to lend money to someone who just prints money to pay you back? 

Offline lasersailor184

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Re: money and credit out of thin air
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2008, 08:01:14 PM »
Even though I disagree with a variety of Paul's positions, he was the only candidate who could have started to turn the ship around. The only candidate for real change, and about the only true outsider in Washington today. Crazy old Ron Paul.

Now, most American's no longer undersand the small govt. message. They find it frightening -- so called conservatives and liberals. He would have had some tough challenges even if he could have been elected. Actually, this crisis might very well have allowed him to push through change, but that ship has sailed.

So, we are stuck with two conventional Washington duds. Of the two, I obviously see Obama as the bigger dud. McCain, at the end of his Washington career, might actually work more for the country than himself. Can't say I have the same trust for Daley machine hack and top Fannie Freddie cash recipient Obama. I wonder how his expansive social programs are going to fly now? Does he have the guts to say no to his party? Didn't in Illinois, that's for sure.

I know it's that old sentimentality spiel, but anyone who would turn down an early trip home from Hanoi on principal might just rise again to the challenge. Still, not much to go on just yet -- no more from a solutions standpoint than Obama. But then, no one seems to know what to do except for Paulson, who may in fact be screwing us over even more with his Wall Street insider Constitution-be-dammed proposal. Limited time offer, call NOW!

So yeah, this sucks. But, maybe it's what we need to finally get some real change in office. Maybe an Obama presidency would be best, right about now. 4 years to deflate the Obama/Democratic myth might be worth the pain, just like it took a Bush to free many Republican minds emotionally tied to a party that ceased to exist some years ago. It's the uniparty folks, and us poor peons don't count and haven't for a while.

Given Obama's political backers (Kennedy, Pelosi, Soros, Durbin) and the party leadership in general, combined with anything approaching hard times, I seriously doubt you will see the much needed, and I'm sure demanded, fiscal restraint. He just won't be able to do it. Just say no, Barry! But, that's not why the party picked him over Hillery. Hell, they're already working to have me pay off the bad loan recipient morons who failed to understand how an ARM works in addition to the robber barons. How many extra billions to reward people who made a bad decisions and lived over their means while I was responsible and conservative in my personal life? Who the hell is going to knock a point or two off my 15 year, modest (40 percent down), low fixed rate loan on an affordable old construction house? Hey, you mean I could have been irresponsible and got a bigger house in the bargin -- damn! This socialism is great stuff I guess. Where's my frickin handout!

So yeah. Ron's popular now that he doesn't stand in the way of the chosen one (or any of the other chosen ones fielded by the uniparty). McCain might be a better short term leader, but an Obama presidency might be just what the Democrat coolaid drinkers need to see the other side of the great Washington truth. If enough of us take the red pill in 4 or 8 years, we may actually be able to get our country back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_8Zq_iWuFg&feature=related

This country has gone through the Fascistic stylings of Wilson, FDR, and Johnson, and come out smiling.  Bleeding heavily, but smiling. 

You think 8 years of subservience at the hands of Obama will be any different?


The best we can hope for is that one of Obama's wrongings will be the catalyst for the next revolution.  And that the American people will not be cowed into smiling while getting stabbed, metaphorically. 
Punishr - N.D.M. Back in the air.
8.) Lasersailor 73 "Will lead the impending revolution from his keyboard"

Offline Urchin

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Re: money and credit out of thin air
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2008, 08:07:52 PM »
Well, honestly... the average American is too stupid to know if they are getting fleeced or not.  For a country with nearly no social mobility, we still have a lot of people with big dreams.  At some point those folks will wake up, then you might see some things change.  Granted, it won't be the sort of change you (or I, for that matter) will enjoy.  I'll have a solidly comfortable lifestyle making ~100-120k a year, but I'll never make it into the real wealthy class.  Most of the benefits of the economic growth for the past 30 years have gone to the top 1% of earners - and they really don't pay much in taxes.  The 'comfortably wealthy' pay the lions share of taxes in this country, the really wealthy make their money in other ways, and can hide it fairly creatively.

Offline bj229r

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Re: money and credit out of thin air
« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2008, 08:17:08 PM »
Well, honestly... the average American is too stupid to know if they are getting fleeced or not.  For a country with nearly no social mobility, we still have a lot of people with big dreams.  At some point those folks will wake up, then you might see some things change.  Granted, it won't be the sort of change you (or I, for that matter) will enjoy.  I'll have a solidly comfortable lifestyle making ~100-120k a year, but I'll never make it into the real wealthy class.  Most of the benefits of the economic growth for the past 30 years have gone to the top 1% of earners - and they really don't pay much in taxes.  The 'comfortably wealthy' pay the lions share of taxes in this country, the really wealthy make their money in other ways, and can hide it fairly creatively.
Well, unless you count the 35% of the TOTAL bill

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers

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Offline Charon

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Re: money and credit out of thin air
« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2008, 08:50:25 PM »
Quote
This country has gone through the Fascistic stylings of Wilson, FDR, and Johnson, and come out smiling.  Bleeding heavily, but smiling.

You think 8 years of subservience at the hands of Obama will be any different?


The best we can hope for is that one of Obama's wrongings will be the catalyst for the next revolution.  And that the American people will not be cowed into smiling while getting stabbed, metaphorically.

I still think we're a ways away from the revolution. As long as you can get American Idol on basic cable, and can afford basic cable, there's just not the will.

The best that can be hoped for is an increasing but incremental shift away from the Washington BS.

A short term revolution that might be doable by 2012, as has been discussed on and off, is a drop the incumbent midterm election. That is something that I believe could be organized and that could have some shock and awe in Washington if it even its 10-20 percent of incumbents.

Charon