A plea against excessively "realistic" cockpits.

[BnZ]

The new F6F has brought this issue to the fore, IMHO.

We all want our cockpits to be an attractive representation of the real thing. But, this must be balanced with the understanding that most AHer's "window" into the virtual world they are flying in is a screen a foot and half to two feet in diameter, and that they are mostly looking around with some pre-set snap views operated by keyboard and button. Thus, I have the following concerns:

1. Instrumentation: Instruments should be large and clear enough to be easily read in the same way a pilot reads them...by glancing down at them. Instruments should be positioned in such a way that they can all be easily read from a normal "look front" head position without adjusting the head position back so far the instruments become tiny.

2. Frames: The frames in some of the newer (and older!) cockpits take massive bites out of the FOV. I know this is in the name of realism and giving players the same visual limitations a real pilot would have, but it has become overkill. A pilot in a real airplane can easily move his head a few inches to one side to look around a frame if a bandit becomes hidden by it, an AH player using buttons and a keyboard to look around cannot. Thus I propose one of two things: Narrow down some of the more excessively thick frames on some cockpits, OR, and this is possibly the superior solution, don't make the icon wink out the minute the plane's dot goes behind a thick cockpit frame. Perhaps make it to where the icon only winks out when it is reasonably close to the center of some of these monstrous frames we have.

3. Highly adjustable head positions should be kept. Once again, this is a compensation for the fact we are mostly looking around with snap views, it is a good thing that in AHII you can zoom  out your snap-views to cover the whole viewable sky and in fact overlap somewhat. They are also a good replacement for troublesome to code and render rear-view mirrors.

[Helm]

I agree,  Allthough the new cockpits look fantasic I have trouble reading the gauges.  I dont know if it's the simulated "glass" on the gauges or the fact that the colors of the marking and indicators are too darkly colored that is my problem.  I have tried turing up the gamma it just washes things out.  I have also tried adjusting the contrast/brightness on my monitor no real improvement.


With the same settings  I can up a non-updated plane and I have no trouble reading the gauges (example c.205...Ki61 etc) I can see them very clearly.

I think the problem is the guys are making things look too real...maybe they should error on the side of functionality?  I think its a "to scale" brightness issue.  Most of the gauges are little further away then your kneecap...yet it seems like you are seeing them from 4ft away in terms of brightness

My suggestions would be to either use brighter shades for the gauge markings and indicators ....or give us  gauge lights we can turn on.

In closing I wish to repeat ...the new cockpits look great ...but gauges are hard to read


Helm ...out

[Greebo]

When a lot of the older cockpits were designed the average player was probably running at much lower screen resolution than now, so the dials needed to be clearer to be at all legible. I'd guess HTC are worried about new players being put off by "out of date" graphics compared to the opposition, hence the current more realistic approach to cockpit art.

[BnZ]

When a lot of the older cockpits were designed the average player was probably running at much lower screen resolution than now, so the dials needed to be clearer to be at all legible. I'd guess HTC are worried about new players being put off by "out of date" graphics compared to the opposition, hence the current more realistic approach to cockpit art.

One of the reasons, in fact the main reason AHII is hands down a better sim than most anything else out there is that you can look around, fly, fight, and monitor your instruments with an ease approaching that real pilots enjoy. One of the reasons the vaunted "Il2" in fact sucks outside of the eye-candy regime is the awful snap-view system, which reduces SA and ability to track bandits during complex dogfights.

[Dragon]

"Il2"  during complex dogfights.

 

[Helm]

When a lot of the older cockpits were designed the average player was probably running at much lower screen resolution than now, so the dials needed to be clearer to be at all legible. I'd guess HTC are worried about new players being put off by "out of date" graphics compared to the opposition, hence the current more realistic approach to cockpit art.

well said ....the older gauges do look cartoonish ...but at least they are functional.  I think there could a be a compromise struck between the 2 issues.  Slightly brighter shades for gauge markings and indicators (needles) ...or gauge lights would solve this problem

....I feel that things are just too grey...this would look fine on a model airplane because it's a 'Scale" color effect.  In any cockpit i have ever seen in person though things are much whiter and brighter.

Helm ...out

[MachNix]

I use snap views that are controlled by two hat switches (one switch on the throttle and one on the stick) that keeps my thumbs busy.  I don’t know if there is a better way of setting up the view controls but I don’t have a way of changing my eye position from the saved view while looking left and up for example which takes both hat switches at the same time.  In the real world I can move my eye position without using my hands.  (Maybe the Tracker IR guys have an advantage by freeing their hands to change eye position.)

Since there is a restriction in movement in the game, objects such as canopy frames should be made semitransparent.  If you can physically move your head and see around an obstruction, that obstruction should be made transparent.  The new cockpits look good but what is going on outside the cockpit is usually more important than the inside.  It is frustrating to need information and not get it.  I guess that applies to both tracking an external threat and just trying to read the airspeed indicator.

[avionix]

You guys use the gauges when flying? 






 

[Zwerg]

Since there is a restriction in movement in the game, objects such as canopy frames should be made semitransparent.  If you can physically move your head and see around an obstruction, that obstruction should be made transparent. 

.

[Shuffler]

I don't see what all the fuss is about. I generally close my eyes when I am attacked or attacking. This relieves any possible problems with looking out of the cockpit.

[Sloehand]

Another comment about the gauges, while agreeing with the aforementioned difficulties.  Making SA possible by having as little visual obstruction possible on a such small, 2-dimensional screen makes the game playable and enjoyable.  

But a further thought about the new gauges.  I guessing here, but from historical reference it seems most real life combat pilots fly only two, three or four different aircraft on average during their entire careers.  And none of those at the same time.  This means they can learn the layout of gauges in each aircraft quickly and intimately.  In our cartoon game, I suspect that a pilot taking up ONLY four aircraft in one day is probably in the minority.  I'll bet for a great, great many if not most, it's not unusual to fly two or three different aircraft, from different countries within the same plane type, and to often fly fighters, and bombers, and attack planes.

Certainly, we eventually become very familar with our top two or three rides, but even so, if they have completely different layouts, it's still disconcerting.  And giving wanting to take less used rides fairly often, it can be difficult to fight well if the cockpit gauges are different in size, orientation and format.

I would suggest standardizing the most important gauges at least (within a historical-looking dashboard), regardless of historical accuracy, simply because we can get into so many different planes on any given day.

[Kweassa]

 Get Track/IR.. quick pan, zoom, observe, return to normal.

 Can be done in like 0.5 seconds.

 Can do the same thing with keyboards and stick, but takes a bit longer.. like 2 seconds.

 

[Bodhi]

you can move your head around in the real F6F cockpit and see far better than we can in game.

[BlauK]

More about the same issue:

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,246603.0.html

[Helm]

Another comment about the gauges, while agreeing with the aforementioned difficulties.  Making SA possible by having as little visual obstruction possible on a such small, 2-dimensional screen makes the game playable and enjoyable.  

But a further thought about the new gauges.  I guessing here, but from historical reference it seems most real life combat pilots fly only two, three or four different aircraft on average during their entire careers.  And none of those at the same time.  This means they can learn the layout of gauges in each aircraft quickly and intimately.  In our cartoon game, I suspect that a pilot taking up ONLY four aircraft in one day is probably in the minority.  I'll bet for a great, great many if not most, it's not unusual to fly two or three different aircraft, from different countries within the same plane type, and to often fly fighters, and bombers, and attack planes.

Certainly, we eventually become very familar with our top two or three rides, but even so, if they have completely different layouts, it's still disconcerting.  And giving wanting to take less used rides fairly often, it can be difficult to fight well if the cockpit gauges are different in size, orientation and format.

I would suggest standardizing the most important gauges at least (within a historical-looking dashboard), regardless of historical accuracy, simply because we can get into so many different planes on any given day.

I like that the gauges are different and in different places...allthough I do see your point

...the differences do give the planes more personality ....I just wish they were easyier to read.


Helm ..out