Can we PLEASE get rid of bar dar below 500ft?

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by popeye:
"A Dot Dar radar would be effective at 25 miles, ie, no matter WHAT alt you are at, you'd show up on the dot dar."

Unless, of course, the field radar had been killed by a lone Arado flying ahead of the NOE strike.  But who would be so devious?    

Are you implying that we might actually use historical cases in such a way that we would attempt a surprize attack on an enemy country as it historically happened in WW2? Say it ain't so! This is a game!    

[Ripsnort]

Incidently, just have HTC make the radar indestructible, that'll solve that problem.  

[Revvin]

J_A_B> NOE was a very real strategy for fighters, heavy fightersand even bombers to avoid detection during WW2, I suppose they were milkrunning too  

[J_A_B]

"J_A_B, NOE was a very real strategy for fighters, heavy fighters and even bombers to avoid detection during WW2, I suppose they were milkrunning too "


Indeed it was.  So what?  In case you haven't noticed, this isn't WW2, this is Aces High.  And, your way of putting says it all--NOE was meant to avoid detection.   Why would you want to avoid detection in an air combat game?  

Ripsnort--I did not see a 25 mile figure in this thread; either I missed it or it was from a different thread.  The effect of 25 mile DOT DAR would depend on how DOT DAR works.  If planes disappear from DOT DAR down low, then that combined with no DAR BAR would have all the negative implications I mentioned above.  Unacceptable.

If planes do NOT disappear from DOT DAR at any altitude, then removal of DAR BAR would be worthless as airfields in AH aren't usually much more than 25 miles apart and thus the defender would still always see your strike (indeed, seeing a mass of red dots with no corresponding DAR BAR would alert them to your altitufde, too).

EDITED FOR THE POST BELOW THIS ONE:

"Even a retard can see a raid coming in before it even takes off."

That means DAR is working as it's meant to be.  Good.  Finding the enemy--and thus promoting air combat--is the point of the DAR.

J_A_B

[ 01-02-2002: Message edited by: J_A_B ]

[Tac]

exactly. Even a retard can see a raid coming in before it even takes off.

Just add a 3rd color bar dar for gvs when they 2 miles from base.

And have the NOE planes be shown on dot dar if they fly within 2 miles of an installation (factory, field or vbase).

[AmRaaM]

Lets face it, this isnt just an 'aircombat..' game. Its a game with some strategy (wish more was involved) and numerous vehicles of all sorts. If it was strictly aircombat, 80% of the subscribers would have quit playing this sim after 6 months of play, and HTC knows it..thus all the ground veh. and ships. Dar bar just adds to the ability to "game" the game. which many believe takes a sim that could be very strategic and makes it into a mindless furfestival where as it is now the number of players on one side basically dictates the winner of the war.  

As far as ground vehicle assults, there are only a limited # of bases with spawning points and generally the "front" is not that large at any given time and certainly not very fluid due to the "trench" type airbattles and ground battles largely due to the fact that the element of suprise has been eliminated from this game with the 'darbar'. If you need to know if a base is under attack by ground vehicles get in the tower and take a look or have an abbreviated darbar like what tac was suggesting. Since ground vehicles assults capturing a base account for probably less than 2% of the captures (without air support) having no darbar at all for ground vehicles would be a way to clear the skies of some of the less talented (like myself) and give then an opportunity to use their ground assult skills to play an active roll in the overall outcome of the "war".

[whels]

Originally posted by Tac:
[QB]
exactly. Even a retard can see a raid coming in before it even takes off.


-------------------


you do know that in ww2, germans ccould see allied planes forming over England for raids into germany with  use of thier radar. thats why british came up with countermeasures, such as, tin foil strips, and radar jamming
machines.

whels

[Ripsnort]

Whels, that's because they flew high, many Mossies raids flew low and flew under radar.

Also, the B17's would usually have a duck and decoy, the decoy flying to another target to throw off the ground radar guys into thinking that the main formation was headed somewhere else.

JAB, yes, the previous threads on this subject mentioned the dot dar, which would detect ANY aircraft at ANY altitude,within a 25 mile radius...hmmm, now heres a thought, why not just include the GV's for this dot dar too?  That solves the "under 500" issue, we can have both no bar dar under 500, and GV's will still be detected on dot dar...?

[Tac]

"Unless, of course, the field radar had been killed by a lone Arado flying ahead of the NOE strike. But who would be so devious"

only killing the HQ will bring down bar dar. Killing radar dish in field only drops the dot dar.

[MrLars]

The MA has to cater to all players in the best way possible. For the casual player the DAR is important to be able to assess the situation quickly to find fights easily. For those of us that log on for an hour or less a day this is very important. If you want to do a NOE raid then attack the strat targets that will let you do that within the current set-up, rather than trying to mold the MA into the kind of arena that suits your particular style and time commitment.

Just my .02

[Tac]

Lars, please tell me how no bar dar below 500ft will affect the ability of players to find a fight. The only thing it does it show them NOE planes in the sector.

Even hitting strat targets is ridiculous. These strat targets are either right by a base (duh, same problem as hitting a base NOE), or they on their own in the middle of a sector (again, duh, if dot dar did not show the cons as they passed through 2 or 3 fields on their way, then its NOE planes for sure..PLUS a big bar dar showing that 10 mossies are flying 100ft from the ground WILL scream "UP NOW!" to everyone). Not to mention they are uncapturable and can be resupplied easily.

Please, HT, dont show bar dar below 500ft AGL.

[janjan]

Bar dar si fine as it is now. There is enough gangbanging already and without bardar for low ones the field captures would become just milk runs.

If the dar bar can be coupled with NUMBERS then it may be ok. So no dar bar for low ones to the limit of 2 or 3 planes. Or something.

Gangbang hordes should be detected.

[Tac]

Fields (by that I mean airfields, vfields, factories and cities) should show DOT DAR of planes flying 6 miles around them, no matter what the alt.

If you have an incoming NOE raid, they will be spotted in dot dar 6 miles out. And any kind of raid on a field will require planes to get at least 7k above the field's alt to be able to attack it... 6 miles + climb time = more than enough time for any moron to see a big blob of red 6 miles away from their field and up their spits, n1ks and la7's and flaks. Not to mention that NOE flights will have to be very carefull not to fly inside this 6 mile radius of ANY enemy held field, vbase or field because they would get detected... any NOE raid would have to take a circumventing route to avoid detection.. and if you look at our maps, that sometimes if hard. Now try that with a large mission...there is bound to be some newbie that will fly above 500ft trying to evade a 20ft hill or someone in the formation of planes that will not try to fly 6 miles away from radar and gets detected.

NOE raids will have to be very carefully planned and flown.

Bar dar is not fine as it is.

[GunnerCAF]

Why have the Dar Bar at all?  Dar Bar are sector counters that count everyone on the playing field.  Coming up with bizarre rules about alt and distance from the field kind of makes the concept useless.  You may as well just count dar dots.

In the MA, the HQ tasks of reporting radar contacts and counting activity in sectors are taken care of for us automaticly.  They displayed on the clip board map.  Since no one in in charge of running the war in MA, I think this works fine.  

In special events  that are run by some command structure, it should be easy just to turn off dar bar.  Let the human command and designated recon and spotters do this work.

Gunner

[hazed-]

J_A_B we all like air t air fighting but we are not going to do that for years on end! at some point you will get what we call 'burn out' where youve done everything a hundred times over.

this is when you NEED new stuff like low jabos and bomber attacks or GV attacks.
I dont care who you are theres no way constant air combat can maintain your attention and enjoyment for longer than a few months.Unless you are a retard like 'Furball laz'