Perk Il-2 37mm cannons

[Kuhn]

Adapt and Overcome.

[BnZ]

A perfect example of how a plane would unbalance the game play was the Hispano armed Corsair back in the early days and an attack plane would have to unbalance the game play as the Corsair did.

I doubt anything will ever come close to that "standard", including probably the C-Hog itself if it were unperked today. If the standard for "unbalancing the game play" is that one plane constitutes 1/4 of what you see in the air, ain't going to happen no matter what you unperk.

Using some more of your logic, since no perked aircraft or vehicle is un-stoppable, why not unperk them all?

[Stoney]

Well, while i agree that perking the 37mm IL2 may too much, but it for sure deserves a lower ENY rating.
Right now of course it shares its value of 25 with the 23 mm version, but it is without a doubt dramatically more effective.
So instead of perking it, I think a ENY of 10-15 would be more reasonable. 

Not ENY--OBJ.  OBJ rating is used for attacking ground targets.  And, the entire planeset, IMO, is due for an OBJ revision.  But, I'd support an OBJ adjustment.

[GhostBer]

Leave the IL alone.  it is hard enough to kill GV's now and the IL is the equalizer that us pilots needed to defend the bases against GV porking. I fly the F4U, F6F and the P38L.  The only one of these planes that will even come close to killing GV's is the 38L and i usually have to bring rockets with me to finish them off.  When your base is getting porked by no less then TEN GV's we need something to equalize.  

I do not play the GV side of this great game because it is called Aces HIGH but i like the GV aspect of the game because i think it makes for a more well rounded game.  It allows players who do not want to fly (I don't know WHY you wouldn't want to fly but that's just me )  to still make a difference in game.

Leave the IL-II alone.  

[BnZ]

A tank caught out in the open in broad day light, with a dedicated tank buster like the Il2 over them, SHOULD be dead meat. If you don't have CAP, or at the very least flak support, you're going to go down like Paris Hilton with the lights off and rightly so.

Whoa, we're getting into what SHOULD be now? Okay, let me play. "Unescorted bombers SHOULD be dead meat, every time. Therefore, unperk the 262."

Do we all understand that in the MA you can't expect the level of cooperation you'd expect out of an actual military operation, or even an FSO? Even if you have some fighters in the area, they usually have bigger worries than protecting tanks from hedge-hopping Il2s. The level of air superiority that prevents Il2s being upped to attack GVs successfully is the "vulch"...IOW, if you have that level of air superiority, the base is all but captured and whatever the GVs are doing is irrelevant at that point anyway. Even if a tank has a flak tail-gating it, not too big a concern. I find an Il2 can usually absorb enough 20MMs to go on and bust the tank. If you get shot down, no big deal, Il2s are free and you can up another to be back over the spawn point in a minute or so. The one good preventative is ironically something I've heard complained about quite a bit in these forums: A horde of WWs moving in from the spawn point to attack.

Then again, I suspect making GVs more or less ineffective in attack is seen as a positive step by some.

[LYNX]

Yer ...I know I'm becoming a pain in the arse with this screen shot but I love it 



Like all things new it'll settle down in a few weeks.  Like I said in another thread you'd be better off perking my noodle.  WideWing made a valid point about the heavy bombs being discontinued.  When it comes to Wirlies and some degree Osties they are still a handful to deal with.  The IL-2 doesn't take kindly to oil or radiator hits forcing it to withdraw or face a ditch / death. 

Adapt to the new situation.  Go in pairs or take mostly wirlies and osties.  Use fewer tanks but take some to guard against other Gv's.  Have some air cover or at least pork the ords before the main thrust.

No longer can a T34 strut it's stuff on a porked base with impunity.  No longer can it truck around towns immune to IL-2's.  Adapt and concor.



 

 

[Anaxogoras]

I find an Il2 can usually absorb enough 20MMs to go on and bust the tank. If you get shot down, no big deal, Il2s are free and you can up another to be back over the spawn point in a minute or so.

Then again, I suspect making GVs more or less ineffective in attack is seen as a positive step by some.

Bingo.

[BnZ]

Well Ghost, as far as porking goes, IMO we need to do away with the fact that one suicide-fighter running in NOE can take away your bombs. And maybe make hangars harder to break or even unbreakable. I can empathize with the frustration of having the ords and VH taken out and then not having anything to kill incoming tanks with.

Okay, if your base is being porked by 10 GVs, you need something to equalize? Understandable sentiment. What if your base is being porked by 10 planes though? Were you implying that the new Il2 allows one player to counter 10 other players in GVs? If so, isn't that perhaps a sign that the 37s ARE little unbalancing?

What are you talking about, not being able to kill GVs with a Hog or Hellcat BTW? A 500 lbs bomb from any of the planes you list will easily kill a tank.

Leave the IL alone.  it is hard enough to kill GV's now and the IL is the equalizer that us pilots needed to defend the bases against GV porking. I fly the F4U, F6F and the P38L.  The only one of these planes that will even come close to killing GV's is the 38L and i usually have to bring rockets with me to finish them off.  When your base is getting porked by no less then TEN GV's we need something to equalize.  

I do not play the GV side of this great game because it is called Aces HIGH but i like the GV aspect of the game because i think it makes for a more well rounded game.  It allows players who do not want to fly (I don't know WHY you wouldn't want to fly but that's just me )  to still make a difference in game.

Leave the IL-II alone.  

[apcampbell]

Time to chime in....strafed several Panzer 4's and Tigers with the new IL-2, multiple hits with the guns, no kills. (although I did down some poor schmuck with the rear MG-he was suprised ) I'd say it's just fine the way it is.

[BnZ]

When it comes to Wirlies and some degree Osties they are still a handful to deal with.  The IL-2 doesn't take kindly to oil or radiator hits forcing it to withdraw or face a ditch / death. 

Who cares if you get a ditch or death? Its not like the thing is perked or anything.

............... take mostly wirlies and osties....................... ..at least pork the ords before the main thrust.

So, the GV attacks that DO succeed will be the most dweebish ones? Nice....

I've said a half-dozen times what I think of how easy it is to pork a base's ords.

No longer can a T34 strut it's stuff on a porked base with impunity.  No longer can it truck around towns immune to IL-2's. 

Well and good. Nowhere did I say remove the 37MMs from the game. Or even perk them very high. Just a light price to counter how easy it is to break up a tank attack with them, because, as I've said before, even if a flak shoots down your Il2, it only takes a minute to be back in the air and tank-busting again, IF one is totally unconcerned with ditching being shot down. Spawn-point to town or base typically takes just a BIT longer than that.

[APDrone]

... Just a light price to counter how easy it is to break up a tank attack with them, because, as I've said before, even if a flak shoots down your Il2, it only takes a minute to be back in the air and tank-busting again, IF one is totally unconcerned with ditching being shot down. Spawn-point to town or base typically takes just a BIT longer than that.

If they were slapped on a plane that had some reasonable chance of surviving against most other aircraft, I might see it.  As it stands, the Il-2 is simply too much of a dog to be considered perkable.  So it busts tanks really easily now? Heck.. send your support buddy in with a P47.  The 50s may not be as effective as cannon, but the amount of ammo they carry makes up for it... then when the Il-2 driver gets tired of seeing the tower, he'll up a spit or LA.. ect.   Threat over.

[BnZ]

If they were slapped on a plane that had some reasonable chance of surviving against most other aircraft, I might see it.  As it stands, the Il-2 is simply too much of a dog to be considered perkable.  So it busts tanks really easily now? Heck.. send your support buddy in with a P47.  The 50s may not be as effective as cannon, but the amount of ammo they carry makes up for it... then when the Il-2 driver gets tired of seeing the tower, he'll up a spit or LA.. ect.   Threat over.

Buddies? What buddies?

Seriously, I've found that when I've been hedgehopping in the thing hunting GVs, I don't get attacked much if there are any friendly airplanes above me at all that constitute a target/threat and the typical bnz passes you do get are easily dodged...fighters just don't want to dive to the deck and turn with the Il2 long enough to put themselves in a bad position relative the other fighters in the air.

[Anaxogoras]

Let's be honest, this is less about a love for the new Il-2 than it is a disdain for gv's.  Many never drive anything other than a wirbel or M-3, but enjoy killing tanks with bombs and rockets, and they see the new Il-2 as another tool in the box for dealing with an annoyance.  I used to be the same way, and just recently started driving tanks because I wasn't happy with sucking in them in so badly.  I still suck, but I like to think I've learned the basics.  Some wouldn't agree that tanking takes skill, but it does.  I ran into rondar the other night and he spanked me so badly I left the area.  If tanking didn't involve some kind of skill, I should be rondar's equal after learning the basics, but he is lightyears ahead of me.

The game is called Aces High, but even the Il-2 demonstrates that the name ought not to be taken literally.  A lot of good fighter pilots don't know how to calibrate the main arena bombsite.  Being unfamiliar with ground vehicles is comparable.  Lack of familiarity is not an argument against any aspect of this game; it's an opportunity to try something new.

Past cries to perk the wirbel are not comparable to a request for perking the 37mm cannon, it's the opposite:  wanting the wirbel to be perked is comparable to not wanting the 37mm Il-2 to be perked.

[APDrone]

Sounds to me like you want to turn this into a GV vs. flyboy conflict much as the historical furballer/toolshedder rivalry.

Not going there for that's not the case.  At least, not for me. 

Last night I popped a couple GVs with the rockets and bombs of the Il-2 ( only got an assist with the cannon ) then, when the plethora of wirbies/osties erupted, I went on a feeding frenzy with a firefly.

Now that I know the Il-2 is going to be more prevalent, I'll be keeping an eye out for countrymen out GVing and then have some Sturmaganoff for dinner.

[LYNX]

Who cares if you get a ditch or death? Its not like the thing is perked or anything.

So, the GV attacks that DO succeed will be the most dweebish ones? Nice....

I've said a half-dozen times what I think of how easy it is to pork a base's ords.



Well and good. Nowhere did I say remove the 37MMs from the game. Or even perk them very high. Just a light price to counter how easy it is to break up a tank attack with them, because, as I've said before, even if a flak shoots down your Il2, it only takes a minute to be back in the air and tank-busting again, IF one is totally unconcerned with ditching being shot down. Spawn-point to town or base typically takes just a BIT longer than that.

OK mate... cards on the table.  This is Aces High and not Aces Low.  I come here to play using WWII aircraft.  I play as a Strat player.  I prefere planes over GV's any time of the day.  Gv'ing for me and my game is part of the set NOT the main part of the set.  I use them when appropriate or just for fun.  For my game Gv's tend to be a hindrance rather than appreciated part of a "flying" game.

Appreciating there are skilled Gv'ers I find the vast majority of Gv'ers are infact failed or skilless flyer's.  Granted...some may well prefere the whole Gv thing over the air thing but I can assure you they are the minority.  I also have a problem understanding why a dedicated Gv'er comes to a flying game.

It is irksome to me to be on a push to look at the map and see one of our towns flashing.  I'll guarantee 8 times out of 10 it's a cheeky newbie trying to have one of our bases away ....all be it part of the game.

For a flying game the IL-2 has it's place.  It's a defence aircraft in my opinion.  One wouldn't use them for base attack although some use them as fighters.  They are fairly limited in their roll in this flying game.  Their ord load has been reduced.  There oil and radiator is as weak as it ever was.  The wirlie & ostie are still a handfull.  Fighters are still a handfull. 

The old T34 was almost impervious to the old IL-2 which in my opinion was a little off.  I see the new IL-2 as a balancer and if it gets some of our skilless, suicider, Lancstuker, gamey idiots to use them instead, then that's a bonus.....right? 

No friend the IL-2 needs as much perking as my noodle does.  Considering that the vast majority of folk are poor shots. Considering that many can't even dive bomb a Bomber hanger with degree of certainty let a loan a moving Gv ....it's a balancer, it's new and it's immediate popularity will settle down.

As for the comment about who cares about dying....Frankly I DO.