Perk Il-2 37mm cannons

[bustr]

In the real WW2 not our game here, what happened when the 37mm Il2 was introduced? How did the germans respond to it? Did it's tank kill ratio improve over the 23mm?

Who ever mentioned the ostie as a solution to the Il2's armor thank you. Last night after I figured out how to zig zag my whirble from the spawn campers, the same Il2 kept killing me while I bounced 20mm off his front.

[mike254]

any idiot can kill tanks now simply by pointing and shooting.  There's no skill to it at all.

You just described GVing. 

[E25280]

Perk it?   

It uses bomber perks -- so who would notice?


. . . although I do agree that the apparent lack of recoil vs. the Hurri IID should be looked at.

[Anaxogoras]

Ooohhh, I like it.  Make it use bomber perks.  Then there will finally be a use for them.

Why is the What it was like in WW2 argument derided and mocked in some cases and then championed in others?   Where is the chorus of smart alecks who always say if you like realism, log off and never play again the next time you die.

[E25280]

Ooohhh, I like it.  Make it use bomber perks.  Then there will finally be a use for them.

It gains you bomber perks, so that is logically the pool it would pull from.

[Anaxogoras]

I thought you could score an Il-2 sortie as "attack," and attack sorties give fighter perks.

[E25280]

I thought you could score an Il-2 sortie as "attack," and attack sorties give fighter perks.

Nope.  Mode is irrelevant to the type of perks you get.  A JU-88 can be scored as attack, too, but I will give you one guess as to the type of perks you get.   

[Ack-Ack]

Why is the What it was like in WW2 argument derided and mocked in some cases and then championed in others?   Where is the chorus of smart alecks who always say if you like realism, log off and never play again the next time you die.

Depends on the comparison, the example I used is very appropriate.  Can you name one time an attacking armored force was successful without any air cover or AA cover defeated an opponent that did have air cover and support? 


ack-ack

[Warspawn]

As it stands, I'm totally against perking any ground-attack aircraft, unless the Wirbelwind receives a heavy perk to compensate.  A well-gunned Wirby will still slaughter an IL-2 9 out of 10 times unless the WW is distracted by a team effort.

[BnZ]

Used to, to bust a GV attack, you upped an A-20 with eggs or a fighter bomber and got a little alt. Or, if you were very good, you used a HurriIID or an Il2 with the 23MMs to bust tanks. Now all of that is superflous.

So, not only do I think the new Il2 gun package swings the pendulum a little out of balanced in the MA as far as airplane vs. GV goes, it also renders the art of killing GVs by divebombing nearly obsolete. Is this effect desirable?

Depends on the comparison, the example I used is very appropriate.  Can you name one time an attacking armored force was successful without any air cover or AA cover defeated an opponent that did have air cover and support? 


ack-ack

In WWII the tanks quite possibly didn't have to worry about jabos because the enemy's ability to field combat aircraft had been nearly destroyed by bombing from 30,000 feet, and the guys driving Shermans and T-34s didn't have to worry about Il2s, and you probably couldn't up your Il2 and be strafing tanks in 10 seconds, and P-38s didn't cross swords with Spitfires...need I go on?

[BnZ]

As it stands, I'm totally against perking any ground-attack aircraft, unless the Wirbelwind receives a heavy perk to compensate.  A well-gunned Wirby will still slaughter an IL-2 9 out of 10 times unless the WW is distracted by a team effort.

Having been on both sides of the equation, I find they neutralize each other. New Il2 will tend to destroy/turret the WW in exchange for being destroyed/severely damaged.

But a WW doesn't move at 200mph.

[Ack-Ack]

Used to, to bust a GV attack, you upped an A-20 with eggs or a fighter bomber and got a little alt. Or, if you were very good, you used a HurriIID or an Il2 with the 23MMs to bust tanks. Now all of that is superflous.

So, not only do I think the new Il2 gun package swings the pendulum a little out of balanced in the MA as far as airplane vs. GV goes, it also renders the art of killing GVs by divebombing nearly obsolete. Is this effect desirable?

In WWII the tanks quite possibly didn't have to worry about jabos because the enemy's ability to field combat aircraft had been nearly destroyed by bombing from 30,000 feet, and the guys driving Shermans and T-34s didn't have to worry about Il2s, and you probably couldn't up your Il2 and be strafing tanks in 10 seconds, and P-38s didn't cross swords with Spitfires...need I go on?

It still doesn't change the fact that any armor attack without any air cover or AA protection against a force that had air cover and AA protection failed.  Why should it be any different in here?

And the IL2 does not make dive bombing GVs obsolete nor does it unbalance the arena.  No one has yet provided any evidence on how it causes any sort of unbalance.  However, there have been many tips given on how to protect yourself if you're a GV against the IL2.  If you're in a Tiger and you're attacking a base without any air/AA protection and you see an enemy IL2 or any other attack plane heading towards you, you really can't whine when you get killed.

The perk the "37mm cannon" whine is just like the whines about perking the LA 7, Spitfire Mk XVI, etc.  It's just players trying to limit things because they don't have the necessary skill set to counter the threat.


ack-ack

[falcon23]

No one mentioned that the 250 kilo bomb option was removed from the IL-2... This was its best air to ground weapon. So, be happy there was some concession.

Whining about the IL-2 is silly, because I'll kill 'em just as easy with an A-20.

Now, I can understand being miffed about IL-2s swarming tank towns on some maps. However, if a horde of ground vehicles rolls on an airfield, I'm going to kill every one I can.

Most of the time I'll stick with the 23mm cannons for the IL-2 as these are far more effective for air to air. More often than not, after crushing a GV horde, several of them will jump in fighters to go pork the ordnance; admitting that they failed.


My regards,

Widewing

 The failure was not porking the ORDS in the first place...

                                               Falcon23

[BnZ]

It still doesn't change the fact that any armor attack without any air cover or AA protection against a force that had air cover and AA protection failed.  Why should it be any different in here?

GV attacks when the opposition had true air superiority already failed in the MA. With an airplane that the average player can easily kill GVs with just by shooting, it doesn't take domination of the skies to fail GV attacks, it takes one Il2 remaining un-kilt for a couple of minutes.

And the IL2 does not make dive bombing GVs obsolete nor does it unbalance the arena.  No one has yet provided any evidence on how it causes any sort of unbalance.  However, there have been many tips given on how to protect yourself if you're a GV against the IL2.  If you're in a Tiger and you're attacking a base without any air/AA protection and you see an enemy IL2 or any other attack plane heading towards you, you really can't whine when you get killed.

How does it NOT make dive-bombing GVs near-obsolete? It is much, much easier to kill a tank with an Il2's 37MMs than by dive-bombing, upping a HurrIID, or upping a tank, it is as simple as that.

I'm not even touching that "unbalance the game" thing, since I'm not sure that phrase has any meaning.

I think people like having the new Il2 guns because it fixes the problem of having your ords porked and then having no way to fight incoming GVs with airplanes. I'd rather have un-porkable ords as a solution to that problem, honestly.

The perk the "37mm cannon" whine is just like the whines about perking the LA 7, Spitfire Mk XVI, etc.  It's just players trying to limit things because they don't have the necessary skill set to counter the threat.


ack-ack

Demonstrate to me the way by which an individual in a tank can counter the threat of of an individual in an Il2 w/37MMs? The tiny chance of main-gunning the Il2 if it gets sloppy? Hide until the Il2 goes away?

[Anaxogoras]

The perk the "37mm cannon" whine is just like the whines about perking the LA 7, Spitfire Mk XVI, etc.  It's just players trying to limit things because they don't have the necessary skill set to counter the threat.

Wait a second, what "skill" helps a Panzer driver counter the threat of an Il-2?  Calling wirbels and fighters for help?  I'm not ready to include the diplomatic skill of bringing lots of friends to a fight under the same category as skill in technique and tactical know-how.  I'll let you clarify this statement before I draw any more conclusions.