Aiming

[mtnman]

Great info here, but I think a few accidental inaccuracies.

1- The bullets do fly an arched trajectory, as they should.  However, they don't necessarily shoot high before they reach convergence, and "fall" into the bulls-eye at convergence.  They may do this with guns mounted at or near eye-level, as in some of the nose-mounted planes.  However, with wing mounted guns I haven't found any planes that follow that rule.  That's due to the fact that the guns are mounted so much lower than eye-level with wing-mounts.  On an F4U, for example, the guns are mounted roughly 5 feet below the pilot's eye level.  In order for the visual effect of having the bullets rise above eye-level and "fall" into the target at convergence, they'd need to rise more than 5 feet at some point before convergence, and then "fall" into the target.  That's a huge arch.  In reality, .50's probably don't have more than a 5-10 INCH arc at the mentioned convergence of 325yds, which means your rounds will actually hit low before reaching convergence...  For example, if the firing distance is 10 feet, your rounds will hit about 5 feet low (in the F4U).  1/2 way to convergence distance, you'll still be roughly 2 1/2 feet low.  This can be seen if you use the .target.  If your bullets actually hit HIGH at any point (in level flight) it would be right BEYOND convergence, but would be minimally high (inches), and very hard to detect in the game.  I could post some diagrams to show this if needed.  For comparison- My .270 hits about 3" high at 100yds, and is sighted in at 200yds.  At 500yds, it hits about 24 inches low (from memory, I'm too tired to look it up in my notes...)  Total trajectory arch in 500yds is roughly 2 1/2 feet.  It only "hits high" because the space between my eye-level and the gun barrel is so small.  If I fired the gun from a standing position, with my big toe on the trigger and the gun on the ground, hitting the 200yd bulls eye, the bullet would never make it up to my eye-level, let alone come above it and "fall" into the target.

Firing slower projectiles (cannons) from near eye-level will increase the odds of having the projectile rise above eye-level before reaching convergence, as will stretching the convergence point out as far as possible. 

2- The actual distance when the counter switches from D400-D200 is 299yds, not 399yds.  D200 encompasses the space 100-299 yds from the pilot.

Another point when it comes to worrying about hit%.  Group size increases with range, even if convergence settings are altered.  The further the bullets fly, the larger the bullet group gets.  For example- set convergence to 300yds, and fire at a target 300 yds out.  Now do the same with convergence set to 600yds, and fire at a 600 yd target.  The 600 yd test will yield a larger diameter group than the 300 yd test.  Super-impose those two groups over the back of an airplane, and you'll see that hitting a plane "dead-on" at 600 yds, with convergence set at 600 yds will yield far fewer hits than doing the same at 300yds with convergence set to 300yds.  So, even if your aim is "spot-on", hitting a target at 300yds, with convergence set to 300yds, will give you a higher hit% than doing the same at 600yds, with 600yd convergence.  I could post diagrams of that too, (but probably not today) if needed.

MtnMan

[Hamltnblue]

Another thing to try is turn tracers off.  This does 2 things.
1. Forces you to get in closer
2. Doesn't alert your opponent to your firing, giving you more time to get the hit.

[Obie303]

Another thing to try is turn tracers off.  This does 2 things.
1. Forces you to get in closer
2. Doesn't alert your opponent to your firing, giving you more time to get the hit.

I agree with this philosophy.  The only problem is that if your gunnery skills already stink, you have a more difficult time adjusting your angle of attack.  If the tracer are on, it's easier to compensate for the bullet drop.  Thus you decrease the waste of precious ammo. 

Here's a thought that somebody may know.  Are the tracers in AH for every round or is it every other round or seven rounds, etc. etc?

[Anaxogoras]

I leave tracers one because it's much easier to scare a bandit off a friendly.

[mtnman]

I'm also mot a fan of tracers off, but that's just my opinion.  I don't believe it helps you learn to shoot better, but I'll agree once in a while it "surprises" your opponent.

I get "surprised" like that at least once or twice per year, hehe!  I generally know when I'm giving my opponent a shot, and couldn't care less about whether he uses tracers or not.  (Actually, being fired upon, I think I'd prefer he NOT have his tracers on.  That way, when he misses, he won't know where to correct, and that may be all I need to change the outcome in my favor, hehe!)

MtnMan

[The Fugitive]

I agree with this philosophy.  The only problem is that if your gunnery skills already stink, you have a more difficult time adjusting your angle of attack.  If the tracer are on, it's easier to compensate for the bullet drop.  Thus you decrease the waste of precious ammo. 

Here's a thought that somebody may know.  Are the tracers in AH for every round or is it every other round or seven rounds, etc. etc?

I think thats what I'm looking for. I have tried both with tracers on, and off.  I know to get close, I understand the ballistics, but I think my biggest problem is "site pictures". As an "old guy", and with my limited time to fly these days I don't remember those pictures very well. So the question comes down to "do you guys with decent hit percentages find yourself going for a certain "angle of attack"? Do you look to set up crossing shots more often than not? Do you speed more time saddling up and when you have the room yank on the stick to get the lead (placing your target under your nose) and fire a burst? What is your shot routine?

Thanks for all the replies so far, while I don't think we have found my solution, you all have made some great points that may help others.   

[CAP1]

I think thats what I'm looking for. I have tried both with tracers on, and off.  I know to get close, I understand the ballistics, but I think my biggest problem is "site pictures". As an "old guy", and with my limited time to fly these days I don't remember those pictures very well. So the question comes down to "do you guys with decent hit percentages find yourself going for a certain "angle of attack"? Do you look to set up crossing shots more often than not? Do you speed more time saddling up and when you have the room yank on the stick to get the lead (placing your target under your nose) and fire a burst? What is your shot routine?

Thanks for all the replies so far, while I don't think we have found my solution, you all have made some great points that may help others.   

based on this question, i don't know if this will help or not.......

but if i'm just trying to wait for that "perfect shot", it's normally when he goes up. for some reason, i have trouble pulling the right lead in a horizontal turn. i try adjusting slightly with rudders if i'm going high or low, but often shoot behind my target. when i think i've adjusted enough, i end up above and in front. but eventually, the guy in front ALWAYS goes up. i don't know why. but i don't know HOW many people i've kilt at the top of their loops. i just follow em up, and they always give me a good target from about the 1 to the 10 of the loops top.

i just don't know what angle of attack this would really be considered.

[goober69]

i say the kind of shot i love most to get even though it can be tough in planes with guns that fire slowly (30,mm) and some 20's  as compared to a hispano.


i love a 90 degree angle off tail crossing shot in full planeform   T  looks like crossing the t
it can be fairly simple to hit if you see it coming before hand and hold the trigger at the right time as he passes in front of you. no short burst there.i spray and hope to nail a canopy
only real problem is if the guy knows what hes doing and rolls his plane to the side showing you a lower profile, the difuculty increases tenfold, at least for me it does.

[uberslet]

Fugitive, my accuracy isnt the greatest, but i can place shots well in times of need. I never look for a certain "shot" due to the fact that it seems even the most basic and expectible shots are always different. Many of kills this month (and probably half the reason my accuracy is what it is) is because my Squadmates are roping the target, while im diving in. I give the target some extra lead to allow for bullet drop, thier climb, my dive, my E vs. his, many different things. However, when im 1-1 I have just overtime gotten an idea of lead in my head, say a 200yd shot with .50's at 400 is about 3/4, or half inch, give or take about a 1/4 inch, and i lay out enough lead to kill him 2 times over if i have the shot, otherwise i lay out enough to (hopefully) wound his strengths vs mine. in no way am i saying to listen to me, or not listen to me, as thats your choice, however i am saying this is how i do it, try it if you please. anyway, just my imput sir, <S>! hope this helps a whisker if ya try it!

[CAP1]

Great info here, but I think a few accidental inaccuracies.

1- The bullets do fly an arched trajectory, as they should.  However, they don't necessarily shoot high before they reach convergence, and "fall" into the bulls-eye at convergence.  They may do this with guns mounted at or near eye-level, as in some of the nose-mounted planes.  However, with wing mounted guns I haven't found any planes that follow that rule.  That's due to the fact that the guns are mounted so much lower than eye-level with wing-mounts.  On an F4U, for example, the guns are mounted roughly 5 feet below the pilot's eye level.  In order for the visual effect of having the bullets rise above eye-level and "fall" into the target at convergence, they'd need to rise more than 5 feet at some point before convergence, and then "fall" into the target.  That's a huge arch.  In reality, .50's probably don't have more than a 5-10 INCH arc at the mentioned convergence of 325yds, which means your rounds will actually hit low before reaching convergence...  For example, if the firing distance is 10 feet, your rounds will hit about 5 feet low (in the F4U).  1/2 way to convergence distance, you'll still be roughly 2 1/2 feet low.  This can be seen if you use the .target.  If your bullets actually hit HIGH at any point (in level flight) it would be right BEYOND convergence, but would be minimally high (inches), and very hard to detect in the game.  I could post some diagrams to show this if needed.  For comparison- My .270 hits about 3" high at 100yds, and is sighted in at 200yds.  At 500yds, it hits about 24 inches low (from memory, I'm too tired to look it up in my notes...)  Total trajectory arch in 500yds is roughly 2 1/2 feet.  It only "hits high" because the space between my eye-level and the gun barrel is so small.  If I fired the gun from a standing position, with my big toe on the trigger and the gun on the ground, hitting the 200yd bulls eye, the bullet would never make it up to my eye-level, let alone come above it and "fall" into the target.

Firing slower projectiles (cannons) from near eye-level will increase the odds of having the projectile rise above eye-level before reaching convergence, as will stretching the convergence point out as far as possible. 

2- The actual distance when the counter switches from D400-D200 is 299yds, not 399yds.  D200 encompasses the space 100-299 yds from the pilot.

Another point when it comes to worrying about hit%.  Group size increases with range, even if convergence settings are altered.  The further the bullets fly, the larger the bullet group gets.  For example- set convergence to 300yds, and fire at a target 300 yds out.  Now do the same with convergence set to 600yds, and fire at a 600 yd target.  The 600 yd test will yield a larger diameter group than the 300 yd test.  Super-impose those two groups over the back of an airplane, and you'll see that hitting a plane "dead-on" at 600 yds, with convergence set at 600 yds will yield far fewer hits than doing the same at 300yds with convergence set to 300yds.  So, even if your aim is "spot-on", hitting a target at 300yds, with convergence set to 300yds, will give you a higher hit% than doing the same at 600yds, with 600yd convergence.  I could post diagrams of that too, (but probably not today) if needed.

MtnMan

didn't murdr post a diagram showing this somewhere?

[Odisseo]

if i may add to this question?
if i survive the merge, i often have trouble aquiring somone's six. if i get their six, i can generally hang with them. i even managed to stay on a corsair when he dropped gear at only D200....which has caused me to overshoot in the past......but back to the merge. 9 out of 10 try to set up a ho type pass. i keep trying to not go for this kind of merge, but everytime i get set up to come past them, rather than at them, they turn into me, recreating the headon merge. i generally finally give up, and let em think they got what they want, and attempt to do a very very slight dive under em with a little slip added one way or the other. 99% of them will in that instance shoot.
 so part of my question is how to set up a better merge? how about you ubersticks(i use that respectfully, not sarcastically)? when you end up in a 5-1 as often happens, i've seen some of you guys take out a couple of them, and manage to escape intact.
 then finally, my time ingame is about the same as fugitives......and my gunnery also is very poor. on everything i fly, i set convergence to 400 yards, with the exception of the a6m's....i set them to 300, and the p38's, i set out to 650 since they're nose mounted.

thanks for reading guys.........

in a fight you have to do 2 things:
1 -  survive
2 - shot your opponent down

When the opponent's a good stick forget the second fight point, fly as smart possible trying to avoid his line of fire if possible with vertical manouvres. Fly trying to keep your energy instead to vaste it using rudder and all your surface controls just to get a shot (maybe), he will try to aim at you -> bigger energy loss, wich will give you in short time a little energy andvantage to spend in an attack (ofcourse depending on your opponent plane).
It happened already that, after a cold merge I started to do himmelmans (avoiding the HO after the first merge) and without care too much on my opponent i did 2 more Himmelman just watching my E and my speed to do it without stall. This way gad me about 2-300ft advantage on an opponent who was only trying to get my plane on his gunsight loosing his energy.

Have fun!

[Patches1]

Leave it to Mtnman to clear the mud! 

My apologies for not being clear in my post. I simply wanted to make sure that the original poster understood that bullets don't fly "flat" to their target and that the "arc" of the bullet needs to be taken into account when firing. Mtnman has clarified this superbly and has delineated the "arc" vs "flat" trajectory in Aces High..

As an example...my 30'06 will fire 1" high at 100 yards, but will continue to rise and then drop total of about 56" into the black at about 1,000 yards from the muzzle...on a good day...all things being perfect...no wind...breathing correctly...sight picture, sight alignment...trigger squeeze...etc...

So...if you wish a perfect sight picture of your opponent in Aces High, you must first understand and see the sight picture of the weapons platform you are flying, understand its ballistics and fly to that end, and be able to fly your chosen aircraft to its advantage over your adversaries.

I think much has been advanced about how to shoot...and what you might see before you shoot...

But I think your original question was..."how do I set up my shot"...and my best answer is to learn to fly to it! I was taught that ACM ( Air Combat Manuevering) was the means to the end, and that gunnery (sight picture) proved who out flew whom.

[Steve]

Fugitive, with the 38  gun combo, IMHO, there's no need to wait til 200 icon to pull the trigger. Those guns are plety lethal as soon as 400 icon shows, even earlier with a steady gun solution.  It may not raise your hit % to fire at 400 but you'll be getting some of those kills your SAPP bro's are currently Bogarting from you.   


Tracers/no tracers:  There are arguments for both I suppose. Tracers serve me nicely for shooting at buffs. Since I begin shooting at buffs farther away(800 yards) if my initial rounds miss it's nice to have the tracers show me where they are going.

I personally don't get the "leave tracers off so you can surprise people" line of thought. If I'm shootin at someone who doesn't know I'm there, I'm not missing.

[The Fugitive]

Thanks for all the replies. I guess what I as looking for is a screen shot or two with a big arrow and the words "SHOOT HERE" ! 

I know that there really is no substitute for practice. I guess I'll just have to do the best I can for now until I win the lottery and can quit my job.

[BaldEagl]

<-------------- SHOOT HERE

Everyone else does