Verm, I hate to do this but...

[fscott]

"I'm not a Chog hater, I'm not a whiner about the hispano's, or any of the other standard pro or con -1C's special interest groups. But I do know that I will enjoy an arena with increased diversity, that I hope perking the -1C will bring."

Do you remember saying this about a month ago? Please tell us why you believe the Chog should be perked and not the La7? After all, shouldn't there be a standard?  From this statement it seesm your standard for perking the Chog is becasue it's too popular? How could that ever compare to a plane like the La7 that is faster on deck than any other plane in the current planeset, can turn like heck, and can climb like a mother? Such a light standard for perking the chog, but you raise the standard for the precious La7? See below...

"I just don't get it. You keep saying "Look at XXX its too good", but we already have other planes that are just as good. Either its a standard or its not a standard. If it applies to one, it should apply to all."

So again elaborate on what that standard is? First you are die-hard against perking the uber-ride like the La7, but all for perking the Chog becasue of it's guns make it so popular??????? Guns that are also found on the Tiffy and teh Niki btw.  Come on Verm, admit it. You just want a free ride in the La7 cause you know it's an awesome ride.

fscott



[This message has been edited by fscott (edited 03-02-2001).]

[Tronspir]

AGW awaits you Fscott (hint)

[Dead Man Flying]

Though I'm not sure that this is how HTC will do it, I believe that the question of perking should look at the abilities of a plane en toto.  Yes, the F4U-1C has some amazing guns with an awful lot of ammo, but it is otherwise about average.  The forthcoming P-51B will be faster, turn better, and climb better than the D model, but it will do so at the cost of a great deal of lethality.  The Dora will climb better and be faster than the A8, but it sacrifices 2 20mm cannons and should turn only marginally better... meaning it'll still be easy meat for most planes in a turnfight.

If anything, the two planes in the current dataset that most closely fit this perking criteria would be the N1K2 and the Yak-9U.  Even then you make tradeoffs in top speed and performance at high alts with the N1K2, and the Yak suffers from very short range and an anemic ammo load.

Perk the La-7?  Following this logic, I'd have to ask myself if it is exceptional in almost all areas without any tradeoffs.  Range?  Lethality?  Speed?  Turning?  Climbrate?  From what I've read, it may be perk worthy.  But reading and seeing are two different things.  

-- Todd/DMF

[fscott]

Exactly Dead Man. It's called totality of the circumstances.  Imagine this scenario. A p51D/B hits the deck to get away from a furball. An La7 at the same altitude or even a little below chases, and of course he's gonna close in.  What options does the P51D/B pilot have? Zilch.  He cannot outturn the La7, he cannot outclimb the La7, he cannot out-scissor the La7, (provided equal pilots). Why can't he do this? Becasue the La7 is an uber ride.

Think of the same scenario with other ac chasign the P51.  If they CAN catch the P51, the P51 will noramlly be able to put up a good turn fight even with a Tiffy, and a 109G10.  

If it ain't perked, it will be my #1 ride, casue I know how easy it'll be to get kills and simply hit the deck and run home when I lose the advantage.

fscott

[Cobra]

So your yardstick is that if it can beat a P51D on the deck it has to be perked?
 
Fscott, I'm not sure your logic holds water.  You're saying that because it beats a P51D that it should be perked?  That's the only criteria?  And you limit that criteria to just the deck...not at alt?  The P51D will eat up the La7 at alt.  

So why not the inverse...Perk the P51D because it performs better than the La7 at alt.

You are limiting your arguement to only 1 dimension and narrowing it to the deck as validation for your position.  

Cobra

[Fury]

Someone post some numbers on the LA7 and Chog, side by side, so we can see what a perk the LA7 is.

Also, since it isn't even out yet why are people predicting how popular it will be?

fscott, so far the only reason you want the LA7 perked is because it is fast on the deck.  That's not a good enough reason.  Gimme some more, and not the predictions about what a popular ride it will be.  Why is the LA7 so much more uber than the other planes that it needs to get perked?

Fury

[Servo]

Perk the Yak?!

You have GOT to be kidding...

Servo
**MOL**

[dolomite]

Perk everything. Perk you, perk him, perk me, perk it all, I am going flying later!

"What the perk!?"

Kieren

[This message has been edited by dolomite (edited 03-02-2001).]

[Dead Man Flying]

 

Originally posted by Servo:
Perk the Yak?!

You have GOT to be kidding...

Did I say perk the Yak?  No.  Read what I wrote again, then think hard about it.

-- Todd/DMF

[Spatula]

Lets look at the La5 versus the chog and apply FScotts logic to it.

La5 is faster than chog
La5 turns better than chog
la5 climbs better than chog
la5 accelerates better the chog
la5 and chog are fairly eqaul in roll rate.

Is the la5 perked? is this a good argument for the choggers to use for perking it?

Ok, and la7 is going to be even better. Im just thinking that if we use fscotts logic to dictate what planes get perked then we might run into trble.

The la7 is going to be the best arena plane for low to medium alts *easy*.

[Fury]

Uh-oh, if the LA7 is going to be better than or equal to the chog then EVERYONE will be flying the LA7.  That will for sure get it perked!  It will be responsible for at least 30% of the MA kills!

I wonder about ammo load, will I be able to do my dweeby spray-and-pray with BFGs in the LA7?

Instead of accusing "chog dweebs" statements on ch 1 we'll see "LA7 dweeb"?  No more chog whines, just LA7 whines!  Chog dweebs have got to be salivating now that they know the pressure will be off them while everyone whines about the newest uber-plane!

Hehehe I guess I'll just wait to see what *the company* decides to perk or not perk.

Fury

[Vermillion]

I have been working on the performance comparison charts in my spare time at work today Fscott, that will prove my point.

As soon as I get them done, I will post them for you.

You DO realize don't you that the La7 is basically a La5 with a different top speed don't you?

Same turn (which is same as Yak9U & Pony), same climb, same acceleration, same type and number of guns (one varient will add +1), same ammo load.

Should the La5FN be perked too?

Anyways, I will show my proof as soon as I get them done.

------------------
Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure

[SwampRat]

 I'd like to see the Chog perked based solely upon the vast numbers constantly in the MA.  That doesn't mean I dislike the Chog as an aircraft for any particular reason, I fly the thing now and again myself. AND I to find it average, But..I often catch myself doing the ole "<sigh>..another Chog to fight" routine, and I'm sure I'm not the only one around who does that.  Perking the Chog will force (sorry bout my political incorrectness) yes force more of a mixed "on average" planeset in use in the MA at any given time, and IMHO that is good.
  By the way, do we the masses have any say in whats to be or not to be perked anyway?

Swamp

[LePaul]

Conincidentally, "perky" is also defined as an emotion.  You can that that pretty clearly here.

Guys I'll spare you a lot of the blah-blah-blah but my only problem with the whoke Perky Point crap is for those of us who do not put in nearly as much stick n rudder time as you guys do.  I'm lucky to get 5-10 hours a week.

As a *paying* member, I'd sure like to settle into a game and fly the "perked" aircraft without being turned away at the gate because I haven't flown enough (or accumulated enough) magic "tokens" to fly them.

While your ideas to balance the game make some sense to me, I think many of y'all are missing the fact that many who play do not rack up the kills/hours/sorties some of you do.

Its an honor to fly with you guys when I can.  But!...it leaves me with a sour aftertaste in my mouth to know that if this perk system that is being rumored for 1.06 will bar me from the good stuff.

My 2 cents have been aired.  Thank you

------------------
Paul J. Busiere

Aces High Arena handle:  BD5Pilot
 http://bd5.checksix.net
BD-5 "T" (TurboProp) 90% complete, first flight in 2001 (We hope!)

[This message has been edited by LePaul (edited 03-02-2001).]

[Dead Man Flying]

 

Originally posted by Spatula:
La5 is faster than chog
La5 turns better than chog
la5 climbs better than chog
la5 accelerates better the chog
la5 and chog are fairly eqaul in roll rate.

I think you're misapplying the criteria.  Rather than using an "average" plane as a standard of comparison, consider instead a plane in the context of all other planes (and keep in mind that I'm against perking the cannon Hog for this very reason).

To wit:  The La5 is faster than the F4U-1C, but the P-51, 109G10, and Typhoon are faster.  The La5 turns better than the cannon Hog, but the Spit V/IX, N1K2, and Zeke turn better.  The La5 climbs better than the cannon Hog, but the 109G10 and the Yak climb better.  The La5 outaccelerates the Hog, but the 109G10, the Yak, and the N1K2 at various alts outaccelerate it.

The point here is that, when compared to the other planes, the F4U-1C does not exhibit properties that suggest that it should be perked.  Except for the guns, it's pretty average.  And while the La5 outperforms it in many key ways, it is also outperformed by other planes in key areas.  Such tradeoff in performance creates balance in the planesets.

If, for some reason, the La7 outperforms every other plane in a substantial number of categories, then of course HTC should consider perking it.  If not... then they shouldn't.  Seems pretty simple.

-- Todd/DMF