Author Topic: A Car  (Read 3071 times)

Offline Grayeagle

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Re: A Car
« Reply #30 on: October 07, 2008, 02:31:30 PM »
LOL.. there's more.

'real world' stang vs Vette:

Can you take the top off?
I can, and do.

Do people come up to you and tell you they've dreamed of owning one for 20 years?
Or ask what year it is? .. are they blown away when you tell 'em
'no, it's not new, it's ten years old and costs less than a new Civic'

Do you get 30mpg at 70mph?

ok ok.. I'll give you the fact that you have a back seat.. for midgets.
I don't need one, that's one of the reasons I got a Vette.

Every bolt on you do for a Mustang will net you more on a Vette.
Start with a faster car, it just goes faster.

I know one thing is the same .. every wannabe wants to run it, stoplight, freeway, even up onramps.
I have been known to exceed the speed limit going up an onramp now an then, that is just pure fun.
Had one o' those V8 Lexus econo boxes get all up into it and blow by me the other day goin up an onramp.
I let him go.. I mean .. it just wasn't a Vette.

Rain squall was dumpin right at the top as we hit the freeway..
..he lost it and slid backward off the freeway after several nice lookin 360's.

Yup .. he showed me.

I was laughin pretty hard when I went by.

Out at Speedworld, Vette's average about a second faster than comparably equipped V-8 Mustangs
Yes.. I've seen some turbo stangs run out there, .. they dont hang with the 1100hp turbo Vettes tho.
'bout a second slower.
Still.

-Frank aka GE
'The better I shoot ..the less I have to manuever'
-GE

Offline Grayeagle

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Re: A Car
« Reply #31 on: October 07, 2008, 02:46:21 PM »
It's not so much I that I like chevies ..it's that I dislike Fords.

If they had any balls at all they'd put a 351 Cleveland in their new Mustang as a top of the line model and just scare the crap outta everyone.
Or even an aluminum version of their top dog 427.
Both were awesome engines to run.

Instead ,..they screw around with namby-pamby motors that just dont get it done.
Ford needs to think about putting 'muscle' into their muscle car.

Can you imagine what a 351 Cleveland would be like in the new stang?
I had the pleasure of wringing out a '69 Mach One 4-gear with a Cleveland in it long ago.
I still remember the outright gut feeling that car gave me.
It was *scary* to get on it hard.
First gear was an eyeblink, second wasn't much slower, ..the car I drove belonged to a friend,
he had put headers on, bigger Holly, and sticky tires in the back.

Always pissed me off that Ford never seemed to stick with a good setup very long.
And what is up with 17 bolts to hold a 289 water pump on?
-rolls eyes-
A pristine example of Ford engineering.
I pass.

-GE aka Frank
'The better I shoot ..the less I have to manuever'
-GE

Offline CAP1

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Re: A Car
« Reply #32 on: October 07, 2008, 02:55:35 PM »
It's not so much I that I like chevies ..it's that I dislike Fords.

If they had any balls at all they'd put a 351 Cleveland in their new Mustang as a top of the line model and just scare the crap outta everyone.
Or even an aluminum version of their top dog 427.
Both were awesome engines to run.

Instead ,..they screw around with namby-pamby motors that just dont get it done.
Ford needs to think about putting 'muscle' into their muscle car.

Can you imagine what a 351 Cleveland would be like in the new stang?
I had the pleasure of wringing out a '69 Mach One 4-gear with a Cleveland in it long ago.
I still remember the outright gut feeling that car gave me.
It was *scary* to get on it hard.
First gear was an eyeblink, second wasn't much slower, ..the car I drove belonged to a friend,
he had put headers on, bigger Holly, and sticky tires in the back.

Always pissed me off that Ford never seemed to stick with a good setup very long.
And what is up with 17 bolts to hold a 289 water pump on?
-rolls eyes-
A pristine example of Ford engineering.
I pass.

-GE aka Frank

a 351C wouldn't do as well in the new stangs. it didn;t make its power in as usable of a range that these engines do. the 4.6L is a very close copy to the old 427's. crossbolted mains, DOHC, and it's not a V engine either. it's a Y block. i THINK the 5.4 is the same, although i'm not sure.

 i had a customer had a 69 z28. 302 4 speed, 4 wheel disc brakes. i think it was a muncie trans. if i had driven one of them whe i was a teen, i might be a chevy nut nowadays. the dam thing was still pulling at 7500rpm when i shifted. i've never taken any of m ford smallblocks that high.....but then i never needed to either.
 i've also never been one to want to race a corvette "just because it's a vette" that's stupid. i race for the same reasons i fly in here. i race because i liek the race...the rush of the acceleration and speed. i don't care if i cross the line first or not. i fly in here cause i like the fight. same deal.

 i'll try to find a pic of my stang to post....and i'll post a few of the shop race car too.......9 second 68 camaro. not street legal though obviously.
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Offline Cobra516

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Re: A Car
« Reply #33 on: October 07, 2008, 03:30:17 PM »
The '03/'04 Cobra is really the only impressive car that Ford has made.  How can anyone say that a factory supercharged car with a built engine, capable of 460+ RWHP with a few bolt-on's is not pretty awesome - or picking up a 2.2L Kenne Bell  and making a reliable 600 RWHP 24/7.  Mine's my daily driver with 516 RWHP.

Granted, they should have made some bigger engines for the Stangs, they've always been behind Chevy until the '03/'04 Cobra - but even then the C5 Z06 was quite a bit faster stock, however a pullied Cobra can put a few cars on a stock one.

Slipping the surly bonds.

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Offline Steve

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Re: A Car
« Reply #34 on: October 07, 2008, 03:30:35 PM »
you'd be surprised. they do however suck in the wet weather.

i know how they handle.  drive em, remember? :D

No I wouldn't be surprised, they are pretty heavy and just don't handle that great and they are kinda slow. The tuner guys in their Cobalts and STI's won't bother me, the guys in custom rods give a friendly nod,  it's always some fool in a new Mustang that somehow thinks because he's got an SVT badge or Cobra badging that he's king poop and he needs to launch faster than me then cut in front of me.. I try to eschew street racing but every once in a while I put  one in its' place. Too bad too, I like the looks of the new Mustangs. They seem to attract the car enthusiasts with the least common sense, though. Not every red light is a race.

I'll admit though, there's nothing like getting on an on-ramp with some mustang poser who is trying to impress his girlfriend. It's only happened to me a couple of times but the evil boy in me can't help but give them hope and let them edge in front a little before I shut the door on them.
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Offline CAP1

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Re: A Car
« Reply #35 on: October 07, 2008, 03:59:08 PM »
No I wouldn't be surprised, they are pretty heavy and just don't handle that great and they are kinda slow. The tuner guys in their Cobalts and STI's won't bother me, the guys in custom rods give a friendly nod,  it's always some fool in a new Mustang that somehow thinks because he's got an SVT badge or Cobra badging that he's king poop and he needs to launch faster than me then cut in front of me.. I try to eschew street racing but every once in a while I put  one in its' place. Too bad too, I like the looks of the new Mustangs. They seem to attract the car enthusiasts with the least common sense, though. Not every red light is a race.

I'll admit though, there's nothing like getting on an on-ramp with some mustang poser who is trying to impress his girlfriend. It's only happened to me a couple of times but the evil boy in me can't help but give them hope and let them edge in front a little before I shut the door on them.

what you state above is part of why the drivetrain of my 89 didn't go into another stang when mine got totaled. it's in a much ugleir car than an 89 mustang could ever be......a 78 fairmont futura. :rofl

the new styled stangs i think are aimed at us older guys......as are the camaros, challengers, and chargers. i thnk that's why they went retro.

 ALSO...........
don't take me wrong.....GE seemed as if he took it a bit personal....i was NOT putting vettes down.
was only stating my opinions, with a couple facts thrown in there. :aok
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Offline Steve

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Re: A Car
« Reply #36 on: October 07, 2008, 04:16:31 PM »
what you state above is part of why the drivetrain of my 89 didn't go into another stang when mine got totaled. it's in a much ugleir car than an 89 mustang could ever be......a 78 fairmont futura. :rofl

the new styled stangs i think are aimed at us older guys......as are the camaros, challengers, and chargers. i thnk that's why they went retro.

 ALSO...........
don't take me wrong.....GE seemed as if he took it a bit personal....i was NOT putting vettes down.
was only stating my opinions, with a couple facts thrown in there. :aok

Well the retro looks just seem more ..... appropriate for a sports car.  The new GTO dind't have a sports car look and it failed.

The new charger is an abomination, IMHO. Guys buy it.... then mistake it for a sports car.... it's a sedan.

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Offline CAP1

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Re: A Car
« Reply #37 on: October 07, 2008, 04:47:15 PM »
Well the retro looks just seem more ..... appropriate for a sports car.  The new GTO dind't have a sports car look and it failed.

The new charger is an abomination, IMHO. Guys buy it.... then mistake it for a sports car.... it's a sedan.



YA, THAT IS KINDA FUNNY........

you're right about the goat. it kinda looks like a big neon.............the charger ugly...challenger......very nice.......
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Offline Bronk

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Re: A Car
« Reply #38 on: October 07, 2008, 05:10:24 PM »
Cretins, the lot of you.


 :D
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Offline CAP1

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Re: A Car
« Reply #39 on: October 07, 2008, 05:18:55 PM »
Cretins, the lot of you.
(Image removed from quote.)
(Image removed from quote.)
 :D

very nice. i like the 67 though. :D
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Offline eagl

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Re: A Car
« Reply #40 on: October 07, 2008, 05:35:20 PM »
You can get an '02 Camaro SS for under $10,000 if you shop around.  It'll beat any production mustang ever built (excluding those limited production runs that cost more than a Z06 vette) on a track and will beat any mustang under $50,000 on the dragstrip.  It handles better than any mustang, gets better gas mileage, goes faster, has a bulletproof engine, and can be modded with minimal effort to go MUCH faster for not much money, and it'll still be more drivable than a mustang that costs 5 or 6 times as much.

As Grayeagle says though, for an American sports car you can't beat a vette.  Even a used vette is going to drive better than any other new American car built today, from a performance perspective.

If you want some REAL fun though, get a used miata and pay a speed shop to drop a V8 or supercharger into it.  There is one shop that is pushing 200mph in a miata and it still weighs less than a vette and handles about as good.  I think "monster miata" started the trend by dropping the old 5.0L mustang engine into a miata, but there are a few places doing the mods now with lots of interesting options.  You can start with a $6000 miata and $15k later have a sleeper that will suck the doors off of Grayeagle's vette.  Of course, the miata will probably redline around 150mph because the mazda engineers have confirmed that the miata simply isn't stable above about 140-150 so the speed shops usually won't gear them tall enough to go any faster than that.  My Dad considered a V8 mod for his miata (he has both a 10th anniversary miata and a beautiful electric blue Z06 vette) but he settled on a $4,000 supercharger package that merely doubled the miata's power while grossly fattening the usable torque curve.  It used to be really fun to drive, now it's really fun to drive and FAST.

Everyone I know, goes away, in the end.

Offline superpug1

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Re: A Car
« Reply #41 on: October 07, 2008, 05:37:07 PM »
haha wow Ive started a monster! I may be on crack but I think I saw a pre production Camaro the other day. I go to school up in AZ by Sedona and there is this Hwy called 89A, its pretty nice. I hear that it sometimes draws car makers for handling and streetability tests since its a 3 or 4k ft climb, twisty, not realy busy, and terribly paved. I would have turned around but I had class.

Offline Bronk

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Re: A Car
« Reply #42 on: October 07, 2008, 05:46:47 PM »
very nice. i like the 67 though. :D
Pfft cretin. ;)
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Offline Grayeagle

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Re: A Car
« Reply #43 on: October 08, 2008, 01:12:33 AM »
There's a light blue Miata runnin around here in Phx area with an LS-3 motor in it .. 430hp when it was stock ..it isn't stock I hear.

Cap .. I didn't take it personal at all :)
I enjoy the chat.

I knew a guy way back when that stuffed a Cleveland into a 65 Mustang fastback in Tucson.
That car was just amazin to watch .. he was havin problems puttin a big enough tire behind it.
He went by my L-88 Chevelle one night like I was stopped... and the Chebby was no slouch.

runnin the valves ..they just sounded so good afterward .. for about a week :)

ya .. they guy in the blue shirt is me.. it was a long .. longlong time ago :)

-GE aka Frank
'The better I shoot ..the less I have to manuever'
-GE

Offline eagl

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Re: A Car
« Reply #44 on: October 08, 2008, 04:29:52 PM »
Regarding mustangs vs. anything else...

Look at the SCCA autocross PAX ratings for F-Stock and Super-Stock.  Cars like the mustang, camaro, certain non-turbo imports (like non-turbo 300z), and other v8 cars are typically in F-Stock.  The Vette is in Super Stock.  Only the stangs and camaros with big mods end up in super stock, and they are simply not competitive against the vettes.  In F-Stock, look at the national results, and you see that every year for the last 10 years, there hasn't been a mustang anywhere near the top 10.  Again, there is not a stock mustang that is competitive against even a 1998 camaro Z-28 unless it is a limited run model, and even then they're not nearly as fast as an equal-price vette.

The SCCA results are definitive - these are real drivers of ALL skill levels, driving each of these cars on a variety of tracks to the limit of the cars.  Some of these guys have been racing their daily driver for years, so you can bet that they are getting every millisecond out of the car.  And the mustangs simply do not match up against anything comparable if handling is part of the contest.

In my very first SCCA autocross event, a very experienced mustang driver was racing against me in my brand new trans-am.  I beat him in my very first race on the first day of the race weekend.  The next day, he offered free driving lessons in exchange for co-driving my car.  He won the event driving my car.  There is no comparison on a real track between a stock mustang and stock f-body, even today.  If you don't believe me, check the SCCA solo2 rulebook and vehicle classification guide and nationals results.

Of course, a well driven miata is about as fast as a mustang in solo2 competition...  Just ask Andy Hollis :)

Everyone I know, goes away, in the end.