HiTech no likes ponys?

[hitech]

That's precisely what I have been thinking.  Tooling around in a Pony was certainly a great experience...  But nobody should be making the mistake of equating that to flying it on the ragged edge, milking every bit of performance out of it and flirting with that nasty snap roll that P51s are known for.

Acctualyy PFactorDave, that is exactly how I was flying it, including using flaps to increase turn rate. Bob Shaw was in the other p51 and we were dog fighting for about 30 mins between the 2 planes. We both departed controlled flight with snap rolls multiple times.

But please do not think that flying a plane has anything to do with being an expert on the plane. It did give me a very good feel for the edges but as for performance, that comes from data and testing.

We have very very good data on the P51, And our performance matches this data.
As always, if you think there is an error in our performance, please post specifics, because post like, "I think the p51 should turn better" is completely useless.


HiTech

[BnZ]

Sure, I could stay at 20k and cherry pick and run for 2 sectors when I get into trouble, but imo that don't make you a good stick.I fly most of the time without a wingman and I'm stuck in a rut and can't seem to get over the adverage pilot hump.

Last tour, 26 of your 101 kills were buffs, your single biggest ticket item was 15 Lancasters.

The fighter you seem to have killed the most were variants on the Fw-190 series, from whom you claimed 17 victims. (Ta-152s included)

The single type of fighter you killed most was the P-51D, with 10.

So half your kills last tour were buffs or things that the P-51 can match agility with once it runs 'em down. (Of course, you flew other things than Mustangs occasionally, so that muddies the waters a bit.)

To which I can only say,  . You are destroying the enemy's craft more than twice as often as he destroys you, which is actually quite well above average for AHII.

But you are probably NOT flying the P-51 like a moron or getting most of your kills turn-fighting on the deck with Spixteens.  I would imagine you are flying it more like I fly my D9

[BnZ]

I wasn't trained as an engineer Dale, so sorry. I was trained as a historian. What would interest me is a good explanation for how so many people involved with the Pursuits during the war got exactly the wrong impression about the qualities of the P-51 relative the P-47, or the 109G for that matter, if we assume the AHII P-51 is indeed correctly modeled in all facets.

Acctualyy PFactorDave, that is exactly how I was flying it, including using flaps to increase turn rate. Bob Shaw was in the other p51 and we were dog fighting for about 30 mins between the 2 planes. We both departed controlled flight with snap rolls multiple times.

But please do not think that flying a plane has anything to do with being an expert on the plane. It did give me a very good feel for the edges but as for performance, that comes from data and testing.

We have very very good data on the P51, And our performance matches this data.
As always, if you think there is an error in our performance, please post specifics, because post like, "I think the p51 should turn better" is completely useless.


HiTech

[BoilerDown]

I think the lesson here is that realistically modeling all these aircraft is a tough job.  We've got primary documents that contradict each other.  WW2 pilots that contradict primary documents and themselves.  We've got groundcrews and pilots making modifications, often sparsely documented, to their aircraft during the war to change their performance compared to others of the same model.  We've got aircraft that no longer even exist any more.  While we have people with real life flights in actual WW2 aircraft, this is only available for a few of the aircraft in Aces High, the rest have to be modeled on best guesses and their true performance will likely never be known with any certainty.  And that's before even considering the modeling of guns and ammunition.

It seems likely to me that the P51 is one of the best modeled aircraft in the entire game.  Many survived the war to this day compared to other fighters.  The 50 cal is also likely one of the best modeled armaments in the game, with tons of guncam footage and lets not forget that the 50cal is still widely used as a weapon today, not much changed from WW2.

So it seems to me, if you're going to complain about aircraft modeling, you'd have a better argument to say that everything else is overmodeled compared to the P51.  The P51 is probably the most right fighter aircraft in the game, just based on how much easier it would be to model it right compared to everything else.

[hitech]

Bnz: If you really have been trained as a historian, then please do lots of research. And you also must know how nonfactual simple observation is, with out concurrent documentation. So do not put lots of weight in antidote evidence by pilots.

You must also view the writings from the eyes of the observer. Every pilot wants to believe his plane is the best.
And as always we appreciate new data we do not have already, but if you do start researching this, and not just make off the cuff statements like you have, you will have to gain some basic knowledge of aerodynamics to be able to separate fact from fiction.  

Even your question in the last post can not be answered. Because you just say our P51d is different from impressions, but give no facts to be addressed, only your claims.

HiTech

[BnZ]

I'll get right on that.

WAIT...Widewing has already done it, by and large. And nothing has changed. I was going to attach the (in)famous relative turn radius illustration to this post, but why bother?

P-51 is going to stay the same, (unless it doesn't), quit wasting my breath, got it.

[dedalos]

Let me get this straight. Are we saying that a P51 cannot out turn a tiffy in the game    You are kidding right?

[scot12b]

Tiff out turn a pony lol

[bustr]

HiTech,

After 5 years of playing your game and observing your conduct on this BBS, how do you maintain your graciousness and patience over this single issue? You allow credibility lines to be crossed after which you  politely and ernestly attempt to provide the most honest data and personal experience info you can in response.

My confusion is that I am unable to beleive as is subliminaly infered by some of these threads that you have made a choice to "not" provide the best P51D that your skills are capable of.

I do not understand this "zombi poni forever fishing expedition".............................

How do you do it sir with so much grace?

[pervert]

Horse Crap!

I fly a 190 alot more than I fly a P-51...so much for some deep, dark bias against Luftwaffe birds. No one on this thread wants some sort of unrealistic Super-Mustang that out-turns Zeroes either, that is a paper-tiger.

Since when did BnZ = the commonly held belief???? Just because you dont think like that doesnt mean others dont you fool???
Just read the comments on youtube the arguing the video itself is proof of peoples commonly held beliefs about their own nations aircraft and the annoying interviewers shock at the comments his subjects make!!  Hes like hey skip you fly these for real but I fly in a make believe world on a pc and I suspect your a liar because this is what I have read/been told all my life titter titter

[BaldEagl]

... So do not put lots of weight in antidote evidence by pilots.

Ahh... I think you meant anecdotal. 

Hitech 1; Spellcheck 0

[uptown]

Acctualyy PFactorDave, that is exactly how I was flying it, including using flaps to increase turn rate. Bob Shaw was in the other p51 and we were dog fighting for about 30 mins between the 2 planes. We both departed controlled flight with snap rolls multiple times.

But please do not think that flying a plane has anything to do with being an expert on the plane. It did give me a very good feel for the edges but as for performance, that comes from data and testing.

We have very very good data on the P51, And our performance matches this data.
As always, if you think there is an error in our performance, please post specifics, because post like, "I think the p51 should turn better" is completely useless.


HiTech

  thank you for the reply. I bet flying the real thing was a blast. Talk about researching your work well done sir

[Chalenge]

Scientists have come to understand that brains in humans dont fully develop until a person reaches the approximate age of 25 years before which they are dangerous on the roads (not realizing they can be killed) and after which they are dangerous on the internet (thinking they know it all). Its possible to conduct 'research' in such a way that you come away with your 'biased' opinion confirmed while ignoring data that would counter your viewpoint especially if you conduct that research on the internet because there is so much untruth and misinformation posted.

[Anaxogoras]

Let me get this straight. Are we saying that a P51 cannot out turn a tiffy in the game    You are kidding right?

According to http://gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php the Typhoon out turns the P-51D.  I don't fly either aircraft much, but I wouldn't assume anything here.  Flying against Typhoons, they seem to turn fairly well, better than P-51s.

[Steve]

Tiffs and temps out turn the 51