109K-4 with MG 151/20

[Anaxogoras]

Prien & Rodeike, Bf 109 F, G & K Series:

Armament of the K-4 consisted of an engine-mounted MK 108 cannon, which by now was installed on the production line, as well as two MG 131 machine-guns above the engine.  There were aircraft, however, which were delivered with an MG 151/20 engine-mounted cannon.

If a handful of La-7s had 3x20mm cannon, the same principle should apply to the 109K-4 in regards to an MG 151/20.

[Saurdaukar]

I'll vote for it.

[Denholm]

Sure!

[Krusty]

Your book is wrong, methinks. K-4s were 30mm only. Others can probably back me up on this.

[Anaxogoras]

It's one of the most well respected books on the 109 in existence, from two reputable historians.  Don't beg the question.

[Krusty]

Really? Huh... Because other books, seemingly reputable, have republished the old fallacy of 2x 20mm MG151/20s in the cowling for ages.

Everything else out there says Mk108 only for K-4s. I think it DOES beg the question: Is this one book right when all the others say otherwise?

It's a fair question. I think the reference you listed is wrong, personally.

[Anaxogoras]

Really? Huh... Because other books, seemingly reputable, have republished the old fallacy of 2x 20mm MG151/20s in the cowling for ages.

No, the mistake they made was that the 109K-4 had 2x MG 151/15 in the cowling, but its repetition owed to their not doing real research with primary sources.  What's his name, William Green(?), started that myth and it appeared in all sorts of craptastic airplane books for decades.  IIRC, even Green realized his mistake relatively quickly, but too late to contain the damage.

This is a book that uses primary sources, e.g. RLM records, number blocks, unit records, and photographic evidence, to support its claims.  They never cite other books about the 109.

[waystin2]

I support this variant loadout if history supports it!

[Motherland]

Since it says 'delivered'... maybe they were delivered that way but never used with the MG151/20? This sounds almost too good to be true...
BTW... Mk108 on the G6.

[Anaxogoras]

By all means, the 109K-4 ENY should be reduced if this change were implemented.

[Krusty]

Since it says 'delivered'... maybe they were delivered that way but never used with the MG151/20? This sounds almost too good to be true...
BTW... Mk108 on the G6.

The G-6 we have modeled is the early G-6 and it fills a role in a timeline. Giving it the 30mm negates this role and leaves all scenarios and events set in 1943 without a major plane that historically was there.

I like the fact they are giving specific aircraft, and not mis-matching like they used to do.

[Motherland]

Bf.109G6 U4 R6, Summer 1943. U4 is the designation for having a Mk108.

[Krusty]

Yes, and in 1943 it was rare for a G-6. 1/3 of the total G-6 production had Mk108s, but when you break down the years almost all of them are in 1944. Somebody posted a breakdown of the years and numbers made once. Maybe in the 109 discussion thread before they were upgraded

[morfiend]

Gava,

 I found a source that stated the early K1 was mounted with 151/20's as there was a shortage of Mk108's.BTW it also(K1) had the 605A and not the 605D that the K4 came with.

 Maybe your source  made an error and should have stated"some K models came with 20's"

 Will look some more into this.

[Cthulhu]

Prien & Rodeike, Bf 109 F, G & K Series:
 
If a handful of La-7s had 3x20mm cannon, the same principle should apply to the 109K-4 in regards to an MG 151/20.

I'll vote for that, but I want my 190D-13 with three 151/20's as well.