Panzer variant mg34 for ju88 please .

[Suave1]

Panzer mg can blow the wing off a fighter plane with about a second of fire . Yesterday I shot a b17 down with the coax mg. Yet when I put a hundred or so rounds from the twin mgs of the ventral gunner position of the ju88 into a fighter it does no visible damage .

[GRUNHERZ]

The new MG34 in the Panzer was put in because of the Hispano's ability to blow up a panzer in one pass, no I dont have proof of this, tno TM55756 ballistics report- but can anyone find any other logical reason? Fix the Hispano- it has lead to BS buff guns and now BS panzer guns, whats next AH?

[SOB]

hehehe  I'll say one thing for ya Grun, you've got one hell of an imagination.

Point 1: Buff guns effectiveness at range was increased to help with survivability.
Point 2: You think the Panzer's gun has gotten stronger.

Conclusion: Both of these playability concessions were made because of the big bad Hispanos!

I just wanted to repeat that to make sure I had it right    You silly bastard!


SOB

On a subject that hits much closer to home, those chutes have become much much harder to kill.  This was certainly a direct result of the FDBs and their uber abilities at killing chutes and/or crashing into the ground next to chutes.  I believe that the FDBs should be perked.  I want to be perkie, especially if I'm gonna be called a cheerleader!  


[This message has been edited by SOB (edited 04-01-2001).]

[GRUNHERZ]

Yes SOB many many people have said that buff guns were given extended range and higher hitting power because Hispano planes would just sit at 1k or so pepper the buff to death.

The panzer MG34 issue isnt so clear cut, before the last version it was useless vs planes, as was case in RL, but recently it is able to rip apart a low alt plane doing a rocket pass.

Now I understand you are one of the AH blissfully ignorant cheerleaders who doesnt care about realism or AH actually putting an effort into improving itself when it comes to logical realism- which BTW could soon be disasterous- but even with that in mind do you consider it reasonable that a single 7.92mm gun completly destroys one of the toughest ground attack planes of the war with only a few pings?

If so you really arent an FDB but some sort of mentally retarded idiot.  
 
Imagine that.  

[This message has been edited by GRUNHERZ (edited 04-01-2001).]

[GRUNHERZ]

Ok now to ger serious, sorry bout name calling.

What other logical reason is there for the MG34s tremendous increase in ability vs aircraft?

It cant be vs bombers, since they either drop bombs from hi alt or dive bomb and pull out quickly.

It cant be vs rocket firing fighters or dive bombing fighters for same reasons as stated above- if a fighter comes close to rocket or bomb blast hell kill himself- so he must fire from longer range.

It cant be against GV or PT boats.

Now to Hispano fighters.

Before all one had to do to kill a Panzer in a Hispano armed fighter was to point at the tank and open fire then pull out at last second, then do this once or twicw again untill the tank was blown up. The tanks MG34 was accuratly modeled and was no threat to any fighter- as in RL. The Hispano fighter would just fly low over the battlefield picking tanks off at will.


Now with the new MG34 modeleing a single gun will kill any of these low alt planes. Even B17 bombers.

Actually this is a good thing in someways as anything that helps tanks vs the inaccurate Hispano is good, however we must understand that all this is, is a reduction of realism for gameplay, and they just add up.

The bomber guns are a perfect example of this. There are plently of arguments about them but nobody says that they are accurate, we all know they are reduced realism gameplay adjustemnts.

Is that what you want a supposedly high-end high-realism simulator constanly crippled
by seemengly endless realism compromises?

Honestly SOB and all the other guys do you want that, are you happy with that?

[SOB]

Hell, when I'm in a buff, I'm much more fearful of a 109 or 190 coming at me than I am of a hog.  It seems they usually have a better idea of what it takes to bring down a buff.  Either way, in my retarded stupor, I don't have any problem with the current lethality of the buff guns.  They can be killed...it just takes patience and sometimes a lot of luck.  Of course, if their guns were weakened, that wouldn't bother me either.

On to the Panzer and it's SuperGun™ Could something of that small a caliber bring down a JABO, and if so do it quickly?  I dunno...doesn't seem likely.  But then, I haven't noticed a change in the panzer gun, either firing at it or being fired upon by it.  The only G2A kill I've gotten with one since 1.06 was with an AP round from the main gun, on a 109 that was bearing strait in on me from a low angle.  There's so much jumping to conclusions going on here on this BB, I tend not to believe what anyone says until HTC confirms it.  

Unfortunately, HTC is 'The Man', and they're trying to keep us down, so they'll probably lie about it and keep it under their hats.  <--sarcasm.

notlob <--palendrome for Bolton?


SOB  <--would like to have an F16 to fly in the m/a because he hates realism; Thinks HTC knows how to make a good flight sim, and although they could use his input, they don't need his advice; likes to wear tight cheerleader outifts - preferably in hot pink.

[SOB]

Your second post made some good points.  Since you're all serious now, I'll tell you what I think.  I like realism...the more the better.  I don't, however, like having realism at all costs without weighing the benefits of it versus playability.  If buffs are going to get eaten to death when flying solo because their guns are modeled realistically, then I think the added advantage that their guns currently have is just fine.

If the Hispanos versus ground vehicles are too strong from what they really should be, then I think it'd be great if they'd be fixed.  But are they too strong against GVs?  and why?  Trying to find a valid argument against Hispanos in a sea of whines is next to impossible, which is why my first reaction to any Hispano-related complaint is generally sarcasm.


SOB


[This message has been edited by SOB (edited 04-01-2001).]

[GRUNHERZ]

I wish I could calm down faster before posting a first response, im too quick to boil sometimes.  

[flakbait]

Actually guys the problem is that penetration and target angles are not modeled. Check the thread on the Aircraft board titled "The great Tankbuster...The spit?" for info. Hopefully they'll fix it.


-----------------------
Flakbait [Delta6]
Delta Six's Flight School
Put the P-61B in Aces High
"With all due respect Chaplian, I don't think God wants to hear from me right now.
I'm gonna go out there and remove one of His creations from this universe.
And when I get back I'm gonna drink a bottle of Scotch like it was Chiggy von
Richthofen's blood and celebrate his death."
Col. McQueen, Space: Above and Beyond
 

[Fishu]

Can we also increase power of ShVAK and MG151/20 cannons?        

tho, I would prefer reducing power of Hispano to comparable levels with the others against armored targets.
Im still having a nightmare of my first C hog ride when I killed 6 tanks without a problem, disabled one who exited, 7th kill and then 8th with rockets (who amazingly didnt blow up on 3 rocket hits from close, but got hit so bad that he had to exit and got 'killed')
Funny that Hispanos actually *BLOW* the tank while rockets just does nothing or then blows the tank part by part.
I would imagine Hispano doing it part by part rather than couple of rockets.


Just wait till HTC gives us a cannon for our Ju88 A-4
The Proof:
           

..and that wasn't the only Ju88 A-4 serving in The Finnish Air Force with a cannon      
also notice 1000kg bomb under the wing.

and more proofs here

[This message has been edited by Fishu (edited 04-02-2001).]

[MrLars]

I spent alot of time in Panzers the last TOD and I feel that the gameplay concessions in regards to the Panzers AA gun are spot on. Any Hispano or bomb carrying plane can kill a tank if the attack is done correctly. The unsuccesful pilots all do the same thing...they come in low and don't coordinate thair attack with other planes. Give me a smooth surface to drive on and a low plane comming straight for me and 9 outa 10 times the plane will be dead. The gameplay concessions that HT has inplace works kinda like the Darwin theory...and very well!

------------------
Lars
***MOL***
Men Of Leisure

[GRUNHERZ]

Single MG34s shooting down fighters are extremly unrealistic, with this attitude gaining ground in AH I wonder if one day we will have compromised gameplay adjustment FM-perhaps we allready do.

[MrLars]

So is respawning multiple times at a capped base...your point? If you are having a hard time killing tanks with a plane, just let the tank jockys do it for you. After all, it's the guy in the plane that chooses to attack and what method he uses. All a tank can do is defend it's self.

------------------
Lars
***MOL***
Men Of Leisure

[Suave1]

KewL d00d ! I want a badass minigun on my tank so I can kill those planes shooting 20mm depleted uranium HE shells at me . Hey after all if those guys want realism they can go play in the axis vs allies arena.

[Jigster]

Hmmm. A gun with a 1000+ rpm rate of fire, shooting headon at a non-manuvering target, all hits landing in the same relative space, using the 7.92 HMG round.

If you get shot down by a Panzer you weren't doing something right.