Automobile magazine says of the new Camaro...

[CAP1]

Here's thing on the comparison with 4.2's and LSX's.  I have to deal with Mustang owners on a weekly basis at our local car meets.  They say the same exact thing you say, CAP.  "You can't compare engines, man.  4.2 vs. 5.7?  Come on!"  Well, how can you NOT compare a Z28 with a Mustang GT?  That's the way it's been for decades!  Like I said it's what Ford puts in them and there's just no way around that until Ford decides something different.  A friend of mine drives a new Mustang Shelby.  When he can he parks next to my Z.  The first time he did that the Mustang owners took note.  One guy even came over and said, "Why is that Mustang parked next to a Camaro?"  To which I replied, "Because he can and he wanted to.  And for the record, the Camaro got there first, as usual." 

To paraphrase what LBJ said in The Right Stuff, "Mustang owners!  Is there anybody that can deal with a Mustang owner?!?"

well, when you put it this way, i can understand why sometimes you sound pissed in your replies.....i'm fairly sure that most of the mustang owners you deal with are kids too.......and probably annoying ones at that. it;s psart of why i chose to put the drivetrain from my wrecked gt into a fairmont, rather than another mustang. they've kinda become magnets for the local PD, as the kids around here lack common sense....in a serious way,,,,,

which one of the shelbys does your friend have? i was on their website earlier today, and it seems as if shelby's doin a lot for ford. apparently, you can get a GT500KR with over 600HP, and warrantied. they say that they can build it to 700+, but no warranty at that point.

 the biggest thing i like about the newer mustangs, like i said before, is that they look soooo much like the old stangs. my first car was a (s)lime green 67 coupe, 289 auto, with a bench seat, black vinyl roof. then had a couple more 67's, a 68 fastback, etc.

 IF i had the money, i'd grab a shelby this time round. no questions at all. if i were more of a chevy nut, and had the money, i'd already have been to the dealer to secure myself the baddest camaro i could get my grubby little paws on.
 like i said, my preference is fords, as i've owned em since i was 17. i'm 46 now, and have owned a little of everything. while i like my dakota, it doesn't hold a candle to my stang, or to my 70 4x4 chevy.

 i like fast. i like the V8 rumble. i LOVE the smell of a good burnout at the strip. i like people that keep the ponycars/muscle cars alive.

most of all...........i effin LOVE arguing about this crap!!!!!!! and i do mean that in a friendly way, just for the record.
 

[CAP1]

Ohhh .. I don't know ..

..comparing 5.0 Ford to 5.0 Chebby .. lessee ..

Boss 302 to Z28 302?
-evil grin-

Ok the Boss 302 was rare .. guess we could match rarity with the 425 horse cross ram 302 from Chebby?
-very evil grin-

It was a fact that if you bolted decent headers to either engine, they gained huge up to 7k+ rpm

They weren't for the 'lectric window crowd for sure

-GE

although i do own a boss302 engine, it is not in a catr right now.....nor is it stock.
i've never had the oppurtunity to drive a boss.

 i have however driven a chevy 302 powrered camaro. 69, muncie 4 speed. i forget hte rear ratio.......

but lemme tell ya........took it out for a whoopin, with the owner riding shotgun.

first time out.....easy on it.........brought the engine up to 3500, sidestep ythe clutch. tires cathc traction, engine 'round 5 grand, powershift 2nd. tires catch traction again, 'round 5 or 6 grand, powershift 3rd, then lift, as it's not my car after all. customer calls me a p***y, and tells me to open her up.

 second run......6 grand, sidestep the clutch, work the throttle a little, because i'm still afraid of overrevving her. she catches traction up the road a bit, powershift 2nd, tires blown away again. they catch, powershift third, they haze a bit, but grab quicker, and that dam engine is STILL pulling at 8 grand. bone stock. i was running outtta road, and had to get out of it, but it impressed the hell outta me.

 both of us were unable to wipe the smiles from our faces when the cherry hill pd followed me into the shop parking lot. thankfully, it was a sergent that i know, so we got off with a warning.

 i've read of similar experiences from people that've driven the boss302's, but i don't have a good comparasion.

the biggest problem with the boss302's was in 69, they had 2.25 intake valves.....waaayyy too big. in 70, they fixed that, and used 2.19 intakes. these were much much better for the street.

 unfortunatly, i have to agree with diablo about ford not putting bigger engines in the stangs....makes it hard to compare, although the camaro in the 80's was 5.0L equipped...and i think i posted specs a few pages back in this thread showing the 5L stang quicker than the 5L camaro.

[CAP1]

If money were no object, my pick:

1st pick:
(Image removed from quote.)
(Image removed from quote.)
(Image removed from quote.)
(Image removed from quote.)
Any one of those.


2nd pick:
(Image removed from quote.)

i think you got your picks backwards sir 

[DiabloTX]

I think the GT vs. Z28 comparison is a fair one to make.  But 4.6 to 5.7 isn't a level field.  You can't poopoo one engine for not making as much power without forced induction when it's giving up 1.1 liters of displacement. 

So you want me to split hairs because Ford doesn't want to drop anything but a 4.6 into the GT.  That's Ford's choice.  I'm comparing 2 cars that are supposed to be equally matched due to their model's history and yet YOU say it's unfair because Ford's only puts a 4.6 in the GT?  What are you, a democrat?

[DiabloTX]

CAP, I may sound pissed off but trust me, I'm not.  I just get really tired of hearing the same old poop from Ford guys.  It's like they need to find a handicap as to why Ford only uses the 4.6 on the GT's.  As I stated in my earlier posts, how can you NOT compare 2 models of cars that have been in competition for decades and then say it's not fair because of CID?  Negro, puh-leeeeze....

Another anecdote, a friend of mine bought a '95 GT, you know the one with a whopping 210 hp?  I bought a '96 base Camaro 3.8 that had 200 hp.  Guess what?  I still beat him in races.  He eventually traded in his GT for  a Cobra.

[Cougar68]

So you want me to split hairs because Ford doesn't want to drop anything but a 4.6 into the GT.  That's Ford's choice.  I'm comparing 2 cars that are supposed to be equally matched due to their model's history and yet YOU say it's unfair because Ford's only puts a 4.6 in the GT?  What are you, a democrat?

Diablo, dude, settle!  I'm talking engines, not cars.  You said earlier that Ford had to drop forced induction onto the engine to make respectable power in comparison to the Chevy engine.  All I'm saying is that when you're giving up 100 cubes that YES, a supercharger helps make up the difference.  It's not a design flaw or a bad engine, just a smaller one! 

FWIW Ford does put bigger engines in the Mustang.  They did a limited run 5.4 DOHC Cobra Jet.  You can also pick up the GT-500KR with the blown 5.4 that puts out 540hp.  Nice engines

[DiabloTX]

I understand the point you're making Coug, but I'm not just only focusing on engines.  It's the comparable model car, GT vs. Z28.  It's been that way for decades but I don't buy the "You can't compare the 2 because of displacement." argument.  Bullcrap, the Parnelli Jones Mustang is exactly what I'm talking about.  Albeit you have to pay over 60 large for one and it gives you the same hp as a stock LS2.

[whiteman]

I paid 19k for a used bone stock 01 Z/28 w/10k miles that did the 1/4 mile in 12.9 @106. I'll take that over a 60K car that looks good but can't get out of it's own way.

[Cougar68]

I'm not saying you shouldn't compare the Mustang and Camaro.  They're competitors and should be compared, but by the numbers. 

First off, I had a heckuva time finding numbers for the v8 Camaro.  What I found for the 422hp 6.2l LS3 with the six speed was 0-60 in 4.9 and 13.4 in the quarter mile.  The '09 Mustang with the 4.6 V8 goes 0-60 in 5.1 with the quarter at 13.5.  The Ford is naturally aspirated and a base model GT. 

[Grayeagle]

Said before, had a good friend from just outta high school days that had a '69 Boss Mustang.

It didn't really run at all till past 3500rpm.
But ohhh baybee ..did it run *guud* from 3500-8k. I remember the car gettin sideways as it came on the cam
when his foot was in it.. 2nd ..3rd .. 4th gear it wouldnt break loose, just pin you in the seat.

Also ran into a guy when I was in the USAF, had a '67 Chevelle with that cross ram 425 hp 302 in it, he had ordered it that way.
That motor pulled that car around like it was *nuthin* .. I can only imagine what it would have been like in a Camaro.
Also very strong pull to 8k, and impossible to hook off the line with any street tire made back then.

Fast cars all .. but .. when I dropped that L-88 into my '64 Chebelle .. that was a crazy car.
I swear I spent more time actually shifting than it did runnin up thru the gears.
And I shifted litnin fast with that close ratio T-10.
Was a 1k rpm drop between each gear ..would slam 2nd at 6500 or so.. 3rd at 7600, and she'd sing to 7k in 4th in about 2 heartbeats.
People that heard it run swore it was a 327

-very evil grin-

-GE aka Frank (no way did I ever side step the clutch ..it broke enough parts just easin it out quickly at 2500rpm while I fed in throttle, then slammed gears fast and hard as I could.. she was a rocket and far from 'stock' L-88


preparin to commence to run the valves ..that's my brudda under the hood, I am hangin back to the right in the bloo shirt, sippin a coke or some such

[DiabloTX]

I'm not saying you shouldn't compare the Mustang and Camaro.  They're competitors and should be compared, but by the numbers. 

First off, I had a heckuva time finding numbers for the v8 Camaro.  What I found for the 422hp 6.2l LS3 with the six speed was 0-60 in 4.9 and 13.4 in the quarter mile.  The '09 Mustang with the 4.6 V8 goes 0-60 in 5.1 with the quarter at 13.5.  The Ford is naturally aspirated and a base model GT. 

Yeah, the new Camaro makes good hp but is just so damn heavy now.  Good to see the 2 are competitive!

[CAP1]

I paid 19k for a used bone stock 01 Z/28 w/10k miles that did the 1/4 mile in 12.9 @106. I'll take that over a 60K car that looks good but can't get out of it's own way.

although nowhere near stock, i got a fairmont that'll hand yer but back to ya.
not as pretty either, but i wanted "different".

 

[whiteman]

mines not stock any more, soon to be far from stock.

[CAP1]

mines not stock any more, soon to be far from stock.

 

[CAP1]

found em............

stock to strock specs for mustangs and camaros.


1982    Chevrolet Camaro Z28                  305     auto    3.23    165@4200        240@2400        9.4     17.13@80.70mph       MT 1/82
1982    Chevrolet Camaro Z28                  305     auto    3.23    165@4200        240@2400        7.9     16.0@85mph           CD 1/82
1982    Chevrolet Camaro Z28                  305     auto    3.23    165@4200        240@2400        9.7     17.5@80mph           RT 1/82
1982    Ford Mustang GT                       302     4 spd   3.08    157@4200        240@2400        8.0     16.3@n/a             RT 1/82
1982    Pontiac Firebird Trans Am             305     auto    3.23    165@4200        240@2400        8.8     16.75@80.50mph       MT 1/82
1982    Pontiac Firebird Trans Am             305     auto    3.23    165@4200        240@2400        9.2     17.0@80.5mph         R&T 9/82
1985    Chevrolet Camaro IROC Z28             305     AOD     n/a     215@4400        275@3200        6.8     15.30@89.1mph        MT 10/84
1985    Chevrolet Camaro IROC Z28             305     AOD     3.42    215@4400        275@3200        7.0     15.2@91mph           C&D 10/84
1985    Chevrolet Camaro IROC Z28             305     AOD     3.27    215@4400        275@3200        6.9     15.30@89.1mph        MT 10/84
1985    Chevrolet Camaro IROC Z28 4bbl L69    305     5 spd   3.73    190@4800        240@3200        7.5     15.4@90mph           C&D 10/84
1985    Chevrolet Camaro IROC Z28 4bbl L69    305     5 spd   3.73    190@4800        240@3200        6.8     15.32@89.6 mph       MT 7/85
1985    Ford Mustang GT                       302     5 spd   2.73    210@4600        265@3400        7.1     15.51@89.7mph        MT 10/84
1985    Pontiac Firebird Trans Am             305     AOD     3.27    205@4400        270@3200        7.7     16.07@84.5mph        MT 10/84
1985    Pontiac Firebird Trans Am 4bbl L69    305     5 spd   3.73    190@4800        240@2400        7.6     15.6@87mph           C&D 4/85
1987    Chevrolet Camaro IROC Z28             350     AOD     3.27    230@4000        330@3200        6.6     15.23@91.2mph        MT 11/89
1987    Chevrolet Camaro IROC Z28             305     5 spd   3.08    215@4400        295@3200        6.6     14.9@95mph           R&T 4/87
1987    Chevrolet Camaro IROC Z28 Conv        305     AOD     3.23    190@4000        285@2800        8.1     16.45@85.1mph        MT 11/86
1987    Chevrolet Corvette                    350     AOD     3.07    240@4000        345@3200        6.7     15.32@90.8mph        MT 11/89
1987    Ford Mustang GT                       302     5 spd   n/a     225@4200        300@3200        6.5     15.13@94.1mph        MT 11/89
1987    Pontiac Firebird Formula              305     5 spd   3.27    205@4400        285@3200        7.7     16.09@87.6mph        MT 11/86
1987    Pontiac Firebird Trans Am GTA         350     AOD     3.27    210@4400        320@2800        6.8     15.35@91.6mph        MT 6/87
1987    Pontiac Firebird Trans Am GTA         350     AOD     3.27    210@4400        320@2800        6.9     15.36@91.7mph        MT 11/89
1987    Pontiac Firebird Trans Am GTA         350     AOD     2.73    210@4000        315@3200        7.1     15.5@89.5mph         
1988    Chevrolet Camaro IROC Z28             350     AOD     3.27    235@4200        335@3400        7.2     15.67@91.6mph        MT 9/88
1988    Chevrolet Camaro IROC Z28             305     5 spd   3.08    215@4400        295@3200        6.6     14.9@95mph           Perf Cars 1988
1988    Chevrolet Camaro, Chevy Raceshop 454  454     AOD     3.27    400@5600        420@3600        5.5     14.0@102mph          MT 1/91
1988    Chevrolet Corvette                    350     4 spd   n/a     245@4300        340@3200        6.5     15.04@93.6MPH        MT 9/88
1988    Ford Mustang GT                       302     5 spd   3.08    230@4200        310@3300        7.1     15.60@91.5mph        MT 9/88
1988    Pontiac Firebird Trans Am GTA         350     AOD     2.73    225@4200        330@3200        7.3     15.88@90mph          MT 7/88
1988    Pontiac Firebird Trans Am GTA         350     AOD     3.27    220@4400        330@3000        7.6     16.08@90.2mph        MT 9/88
1988    Pontiac Firebird Trans Am GTA         350     AOD     n/a     210@4400        315@3200        7.1     15.5@89.5mph
1989    Chevrolet Camaro IROC Z28             350     AOD     3.27    230@4000        330@3200        6.9     15.54@91.7mph        MT 1/88
1989    Chevrolet Camaro IROC Z28 Conv        305     AOD     2.73    195@4000        295@2800        7.8     16.28@84.31mph       MT 11/89
1989    Chevrolet Camaro, Chevy Raceshop      350     5 spd   3.45    345@5000        380@3600        5.2     13.7@103.3mph        MT 1/91
1989    Chevrolet Corvette                    350     6 spd   3.42    245@4300        340@3200        6.4     15.02@94.6mph        MT 5/89
1989    Chevrolet Corvette                    350     6 spd   3.54    240@4000        335@3200        5.6     14.46@95.27mph       MT 11/89
1989    Chevrolet Corvette Callaway TT        350     6 spd   3.54    382@4250        562@2500        4.4     12.9@111mph          C&D 5/89
1989    Ford Mustang GT                       302     5 spd   2.73    225@4000        300@3200        7.2     15.77@92.8           MT 1/88
1989    Ford Mustang LX                       302     5 spd   3.08    225@4200        300@3200        6.6     15.38@91.52mph       MT 11/89
1989    Ford Mustang Saleen SC                302     5 spd   3.55    292@5200        327@3500        5.9     14.2@98mph           C&D 5/89
1989    Pontiac Firebird Formula              305     5 spd   3.08    215@4000        285@3200        7.5     15.95@88.5mph        MT 1/88
1989    Pontiac Firebird Trans Am 20th Ann    231     AOD     3.27    250@4300        340@2800        5.4     14.18@95.8mph        MT 3/89
1989    Pontiac Firebird Trans Am 20th Ann    231     AOD     3.27    250@4000        340@2800        5.1     14.18@98.86mph       MT 11/89
1989    Pontiac Firebird Trans Am GTA         350     AOD     3.27    235@440         325@2400        6.5     15.40@90.28mph       

HERE'S THE LINK
http://www.cobranet.com/roadtest.htm