110C>109E?

[splitatom]

i would take a 109f anytime over the 110 but i hate the 109 e so i chose to fly with the 110

[BnZs]

One problem I've read about in relation to the 110 is very heavy elevator forces at combat air speeds.

This is not much of a problem for most any plane in AHII without diving.

[Angus]

In addition, all AFDU trials state that the Spitfire I's turn rate is by far better than the Hurricane's, whose turn rate is almost the same as the Emil's. In our game, I'm choosing the Hurricane I over the Spitfire Ia any day.

I have the words of a Hurricane & Spit vet that the Hurricane was much lighter on the roll plane while heavier on the elevators. That applies to low to medium speeds. He actually said that the Hurry was very easy because the ailerons and elevators were well the same "weight" on the stick, - i.e. equally heavy.
As for the turn rates, AFAIK the Hurry would outturn the Spit except at high speeds perhaps. Some pilots referred to it as "turning into it's own tail".
Yet, you have aces as R.S.Tuck referring to the Hurry as a heavy workhorse vs a Grand National racer in comparison with the Spitfire.
Now the Emil AFAIK lacks quite some turning (sustained turn) compared to both the Spit and the Hurry.
The 110 baffles me in the scenarios, - I regard it as far more dangerous in a "mix" than a gaggle of 109's. And that is absolutely the contrary to RL, where scattered 110's fell nicely to RAF guns...

[SgtPappy]

I doubt any 110 pilots had multiple lives or used flaps.

And it's always hard to take pilot words into account. As been proven many times over, there are highly controversial accounts everywhere. Though that is not to say accounts are crap. They're simply not worth Gospel.

[Bruv119]

We also have a rare, up engined Bf110C-4 compared to the one used in the BoB.  A Spitfire Mk II would be a better oponent for it.

Hurricane is overmodeled.

That would explain a few things.   Yes I would say the 110c is more dangerous than the 109E.   I don't think the 109 is lacking just the 110 I would question some things about it.

[Angus]

One problem I've read about in relation to the 110 is very heavy elevator forces at combat air speeds.

This is not much of a problem for most any plane in AHII without diving.

That could explain some things. Because the wingloading (for turning) isn't that bad at all, yet I have never seen accounts about 110's turning on the dime, which they can do in AH.
But this is hard for HTC to get hands on. 110 test reports? Never seen any.

[Die Hard]

The 110E/F is said to have been fully acrobatic, more manoeuvrable than the 109F, but not as fast. It was much liked by its crews.

[save]

IRL 110c model used in BOB where easily outmaneuvered in the vertical or simply outturned by hurricanes and spit1's

I suspect energy retention are way off in this bird.

In "another online sim" 110c behave more more like a fast birds that should avoid any turnfighting since it lose energy faster than granny going upstairs. If you, however, come within 110s gun-arc your day will probably be ruinied.

Remember 60% of all kills where made by an aircraft which target did not see.
Icons ...

[Delirium]

The 110C we have now can't outrun SpitIs in level flight, and it can't out turn neither the Spit nor the Hurricane. It has a climb rate slightly better than the HurriI but worse than the SpitI.

I've flown 110s the last couple of BoB scenarios. You basically fly it like a Fw190; shoot and scoot. If something gets within 600 of your 6 o'clock, put your nose down. The weight of the 110 and the lack of neg G carberators on the RAF birds allow you to get away.

It isn't a super-bird, it just takes a little SA and common sense.

[bongaroo]

Spit 1 is a great plane.   However, most 110 sticks in this game HO the first chance they get.   The only name that comes to mind that most often DOESN'T, would be 4510.   He can turn it with ease.   

More often than not, "lopsided plane choices" influence the "outcome of the scenarios".    Most take the "safety net" route and this is true. 

I'm 11-0 in HO'ing 110G's whilst in a Spit 1, in the MA's.   They all fired first and were sent to the tower in one pass.   Just because you have cannon, does not mean you have "accuracy".

I'd personally choose the Emil over the 110C.   Not only is the Emil a better turner, it is a more stable platform.   The Emil and 109F4 for that matter are my favorite 109's to fly.   They require more than just "fire the tater", they require "lag pursuit" tactics, of which I immerse myself in.   I'm often not "playing with my food", but I'm merely "savoring the fight".    Most cannot effectively utilize "lag pursuit", but it is one of my strengths.   Not to mention, I've floored folks in a furball, letting them know "where a certain Con is going break".   You see, with the Emil you cannot simply "fire off rounds from 600+", the plane forces you to get "up close".   If you're firing from 500 and on out, yer wasting ammo.   

I'll probably be branded "a showoff" for the last few sentences, but so be it.    Those who know me and have actually take the time to do so, know I am not.   

Showoff!  Bet if I'm in a 110c and your in a spit1 and I get to shoot first I'd win the HO though.    I know, 11-0 or whatever your photographic memory says.

[Anaxogoras]

The 110C we have now can't outrun SpitIs in level flight, and it can't out turn neither the Spit nor the Hurricane. It has a climb rate slightly better than the HurriI but worse than the SpitI.

I've flown 110s the last couple of BoB scenarios. You basically fly it like a Fw190; shoot and scoot. If something gets within 600 of your 6 o'clock, put your nose down. The weight of the 110 and the lack of neg G carberators on the RAF birds allow you to get away.

It isn't a super-bird, it just takes a little SA and common sense.

100% correct.  The only advantage of the 110C in the BoB is the gun package, but that's enough.  Generally, give a pilot with good SA a firepower advantage and they'll mop the floor with it.

[RAM]

IRL 110c model used in BOB where easily outmaneuvered in the vertical or simply outturned by hurricanes and spit1's

outmanouvered doesn't mean outturned. The 110C (all 110s for that matter) had serious troubles if forced into a slow, close, knifefight. It had a huge roll inertia and a rollrate which was only average at medium to high speeds, but quite slow at low speeds. Once commited to a circle, the 110c turned suprisingly well. However, if commited to a turning fight and even with that surprising low speeed turning the problem was twofold:

1-simply said, the plane was unable to change direction of turning as fast as the british fighters did (at least at medium and slow speeds, at high speeds the Spit I was seriously impaired). At medium to high speeds roll was better, but at slow speeds it was VERY slow. And one engined fighters capitalized this serious weak point.

2-the plane was very underpowered for it's size and weight, so any speed lost was hard to regain unless diving. Sustained turnrate was terrible in the 110, even while initial turnrate was quite good for all speeds. Any energy lost, was lost for good, the plane couldn't build it back very fast and was doomed (unless pitted with a hurri, which was an even worse E-builder)

Performance-wise the 110 was much better than the hurricane: noticeably faster at all altitudes, slight acceleration and climbrate advantage, and a better dive/Zoom.

The Spit outperformed the 110 in almost every area, however the germans fought the 110 at high speeds doing slashing attacks when on the offensive, and resorting to diving/hispeed maneouvering when in the defensive. 0G impaired carburators and the famous cementing of ailerons on early spitfires was all the 110 needed to escape from a bouncing enemy.

And so it was the standard evasion tactic for LW planes (emil and 110's alike) in BoB: Dive with neg Gs, build up speed, roll away and escape: the spit can't follow the roll-out and the hurricane will be lost in the dive and is slower once in level flight. And both planes will lose a hefty of space initially because they will have to roll upside down before diving.


I think the 110C was a successful fighter for it's era and that it earned a tarnished reputation because of extremely bad decisions taken by the OKL during the BoB. As long as they flew in free hunts and unattached to close escort duties, the 110 did quite well. But once it was "chained" to the bombers to give them close escort, and so leaving them low and slow, they were smashed because the plane was not intended to fight that way. And could not.

[Noir]

the 110C4 got a such good k/d ratio in BOB just because we ROCK 

[Angus]

Got to do some calculations, but I find it hard to belive that the 110 would outclimb the HurryI. In RL that is.
I recall seeing that the wingloading is lower than on a Mossie, however the Mossie has a lot more power than the BoB 110. How does Mossie turn against the later model?

[Die Hard]

In game the Mossie and 110G are very close in turn and climb, with a slight edge going to the 110G. Mossie is faster though.