jagdpanzer IV 70 (v)

[SmokinLoon]

-BigPlay

I'll challenge you on the StuG vs Sherman M4 and Churchill kill ratio.  I'd be willing to bet it was much closer than you claim.  Back up your data, please.

The Churchill was a slow lumbering beast, no dout about it.  Its 6lb (57mm) main gun was able to deal with the Pzr III and Pzr IV it fought against in Normady.  It was barely adequate, but it wasnt worthless.  Only against the Tiger's and Panther's frontal armor did they have almost no hope of defeating them.  Ditto for the M4 Sherman w/ the 75mm gun.

I did not ever say the StuG was worthless.  I said the StuG would be almost worthless in the AH2 game.  As the AH2 game has proven many times over, what was good in real life WWII may be worthless in AH2 and what is good in AH2 might have been worthless in WWII.  Just take a look at the ENY/OBJ numbers and that that should tell something.  Yeah, many of those numbers need to be adjusted, but those requests have fallen on deaf ears time and time again at HTC.   

I'd argue that the M10/M18 would not be worthless in the game, more-so the M18.  The M10 would be a step down from the Firefly in every sense, so the M18 would be a better choice to add.  I only offered the M10 due to the ease of adding it to the ga,e because of having the same chassis of the Firefly.  THe Hellcat's main gun was almost as effective as the 17lb'er (and better than the Pzr IV), but the M18 was a smaller target, it moved 20-25mph faster, and actually had better anti-air with the 50cal.  The open topped turret does pose a danger of being taken out by aircraft, but when speaking of 500lb bombs falling... it is no more fragile than any other gv.

Oh... and the Tiger can be taken out at 20+ by a T34/85 or Pzr IV.  It isnt indestructable.  Like many things in this game... it is not modelled correctly. 

[glock89]

-BigPlay

I'll challenge you on the StuG vs Sherman M4 and Churchill kill ratio.  I'd be willing to bet it was much closer than you claim.  Back up your data, please.

The Churchill was a slow lumbering beast, no dout about it.  Its 6lb (57mm) main gun was able to deal with the Pzr III and Pzr IV it fought against in Normady.  It was barely adequate, but it wasnt worthless.  Only against the Tiger's and Panther's frontal armor did they have almost no hope of defeating them.  Ditto for the M4 Sherman w/ the 75mm gun.

I did not ever say the StuG was worthless.  I said the StuG would be almost worthless in the AH2 game.  As the AH2 game has proven many times over, what was good in real life WWII may be worthless in AH2 and what is good in AH2 might have been worthless in WWII.  Just take a look at the ENY/OBJ numbers and that that should tell something.  Yeah, many of those numbers need to be adjusted, but those requests have fallen on deaf ears time and time again at HTC.   

I'd argue that the M10/M18 would not be worthless in the game, more-so the M18.  The M10 would be a step down from the Firefly in every sense, so the M18 would be a better choice to add.  I only offered the M10 due to the ease of adding it to the ga,e because of having the same chassis of the Firefly.  THe Hellcat's main gun was almost as effective as the 17lb'er (and better than the Pzr IV), but the M18 was a smaller target, it moved 20-25mph faster, and actually had better anti-air with the 50cal.  The open topped turret does pose a danger of being taken out by aircraft, but when speaking of 500lb bombs falling... it is no more fragile than any other gv.

Oh... and the Tiger can be taken out at 20+ by a T34/85 or Pzr IV.  It isnt indestructable.  Like many things in this game... it is not modelled correctly. 

True.

[BigPlay]

-BigPlay

I'll challenge you on the StuG vs Sherman M4 and Churchill kill ratio.  I'd be willing to bet it was much closer than you claim.  Back up your data, please.

The Churchill was a slow lumbering beast, no dout about it.  Its 6lb (57mm) main gun was able to deal with the Pzr III and Pzr IV it fought against in Normady.  It was barely adequate, but it wasnt worthless.  Only against the Tiger's and Panther's frontal armor did they have almost no hope of defeating them.  Ditto for the M4 Sherman w/ the 75mm gun.

I did not ever say the StuG was worthless.  I said the StuG would be almost worthless in the AH2 game.  As the AH2 game has proven many times over, what was good in real life WWII may be worthless in AH2 and what is good in AH2 might have been worthless in WWII.  Just take a look at the ENY/OBJ numbers and that that should tell something.  Yeah, many of those numbers need to be adjusted, but those requests have fallen on deaf ears time and time again at HTC.   

I'd argue that the M10/M18 would not be worthless in the game, more-so the M18.  The M10 would be a step down from the Firefly in every sense, so the M18 would be a better choice to add.  I only offered the M10 due to the ease of adding it to the ga,e because of having the same chassis of the Firefly.  THe Hellcat's main gun was almost as effective as the 17lb'er (and better than the Pzr IV), but the M18 was a smaller target, it moved 20-25mph faster, and actually had better anti-air with the 50cal.  The open topped turret does pose a danger of being taken out by aircraft, but when speaking of 500lb bombs falling... it is no more fragile than any other gv.

Oh... and the Tiger can be taken out at 20+ by a T34/85 or Pzr IV.  It isnt indestructable.  Like many things in this game... it is not modelled correctly. 

First the 57mm gun on the was not a good gun for killing Tanks. By Normandy time it was useless as the complete tank in general. It was designed as an infantry support tank, not a battle tank, so in my words useless. Second T-34's and Tigers are hard to kill with bombs, M-10 or M-18 would be as easy as a panzer. So they are more fragile than some tanks. The T-34/85 was designed to deal with the Tiger and was able to take a Tiger out so over modeled may be a stretch. I do believe that the Tigers are taken out too easy by panzer's but from what I have been told is planes, GV's are a bit harder to kill on sides with lower numbers. A form of game equalization. At least that's what I have been told.

I will do a bit of research on the Stug vs the other two but am pretty sure what I said is what I will find.

[SmokinLoon]

First the 57mm gun on the was not a good gun for killing Tanks. By Normandy time it was useless as the complete tank in general. It was designed as an infantry support tank, not a battle tank, so in my words useless. Second T-34's and Tigers are hard to kill with bombs, M-10 or M-18 would be as easy as a panzer. So they are more fragile than some tanks. The T-34/85 was designed to deal with the Tiger and was able to take a Tiger out so over modeled may be a stretch. I do believe that the Tigers are taken out too easy by panzer's but from what I have been told is planes, GV's are a bit harder to kill on sides with lower numbers. A form of game equalization. At least that's what I have been told.

I will do a bit of research on the Stug vs the other two but am pretty sure what I said is what I will find.

Like I mentioned, the US 57mm and British 6lb'er were adequate at best, but not worthless.  What it was designed for and what it was used for is negligible if the outcome if positive.  I'm sure your aware the German 88mm began life as an AA gun, correct?  The penetration charateristics of the 6lb'er were satisfactory with the firing ranges in the Norman hedgrows, again not ideal but adequate with the situation at hand.  Once the 17lb'er became available then yes... by all means it should have been left behind at the fastest rate possible.

The Tiger in AH2 is too fragile vs gv's.  Vs the air I'm not sure but it may be about right.  I do believe the T34 has a turrent made of cheese (vs other gv's) and it is also too difficult to defeat via Hurri IID or IL-2 w/ cannon fire.  I dont hear much of much troubles of people not being able to take out Tigers or T34 with ord.

1v1, the Tiger can walk all over the T34/85mm at any range, especially long ranges (both real life and in AH2).  The Soviet 85mm was a step up with its lackluster 76mm, but not enough to make a difference.  The penetration data clearly shows that.

[BigPlay]

The Russian guns were a little to be desired. I fly in attack mode with A20 all the time. I drop Panzers with ease but Tigers and T-34's need to have the bomb dropped right on them to kill them. At least that's the way it is for me.