After 9 years...

[SlapShot]

someone mentioned large maps as a problem, and I agree, when there are more bases than players, just doesn't seem right.. (large maps  - compello/ozkansas/tagma)

The size of the map has nothing to do with it ... as others have pointed out, it's the player base ... there are more "gamers" now than there are "simmers".

I actually prefer the larger maps in LW ... you can find some good fights on the fringes of the map as opposed to sections where you have to fight amongst each other to get a "kill" ... where your either "hording" or being "horded" ... not much fun as far as I am concerned.

[uptown]

Yep, that's spot on slapshot.

[Kev367th]

HT has said he wouldn't do anything that would split the community, so surely an arena just for one type of specific player is out of the question.

Or else why not have -
GV only arena
Buffs only arena
etc etc etc.

Where do you draw the line?

A certain player group likes to advocate we should all adapt to the arena caps etc, so why won't they adapt to the 'new' style of play?
AH has come a long way since I started playing, various changes, some I liked, some I didn't. But it is no longer a pure air to air game.
If it had remained like that I'd be surprised if there would be anything like the number of players there is now. Remember all these guys you seem to like slagging off, pay a subscription, and therefore helped to fund the game development.

[Old Sport]

In addition to the current subscription of $14.99 for all current arenas, how 'bout an option for an "Aces High GOLD" arena. 

Only the elite would want to play there because the subscription price would be $24.99. 

This option would not prevent any and all ordinary subscribers from using the current arenas, just as they do today.

But only those who can cough up the extra $10 bucks a month will enjoy the privilege of flying in the "elite" arena. This price barrier would probably do an awful lot to eliminate dweebery.

Aces High GOLD card holders would of course be able to fly in all the arenas as today, but they and they alone will be able to enter the dread and august arena of the "best of the best" (or at least who believe they are). 

I wasn't around when people flew by the hour, but apparently $24.99 would be a bargain compared to what some people were willing to pay then. 

[SlapShot]

In addition to the current subscription of $14.99 for all current arenas, how 'bout an option for an "Aces High GOLD" arena. 

Only the elite would want to play there because the subscription price would be $24.99. 

This option would not prevent any and all ordinary subscribers from using the current arenas, just as they do today.

But only those who can cough up the extra $10 bucks a month will enjoy the privilege of flying in the "elite" arena. This price barrier would probably do an awful lot to eliminate dweebery.

Aces High GOLD card holders would of course be able to fly in all the arenas as today, but they and they alone will be able to enter the dread and august arena of the "best of the best" (or at least who believe they are). 

I wasn't around when people flew by the hour, but apparently $24.99 would be a bargain compared to what some people were willing to pay then. 

Money, IMHO, is not the answer ... what makes you think that "griefers" are poor ?

[hubsonfire]

A certain player group likes to advocate we should all adapt to the arena caps etc, so why won't they adapt to the 'new' style of play?
AH has come a long way since I started playing, various changes, some I liked, some I didn't. But it is no longer a pure air to air game.
If it had remained like that I'd be surprised if there would be anything like the number of players there is now. Remember all these guys you seem to like slagging off, pay a subscription, and therefore helped to fund the game development.

Arena caps- a change made to lessen the negative effects you've had  on the arenas.
Saying we should adapt to your gameplay - a change made in increase the negative effects you've had on the arenas.

There's a little bit of a difference.

[humble]

I'm not advocating anyone change there style of play. I also think the game has gone along way...in the wrong direction. Every change made since beta has been done to dumb down the game. The original cadre of beta flyers were the best sim pilots on the planet. The original flight model was exceptional IMO. Rewarding careful E management but allowing aggressive angles flying and very even across plane type.

Since then we have the introduction of the easy mode FM, IMO simply to ease the transition for all those coming from AW and other sims. Formations of buffs with easy mode bombing and laser beams for defense. Whats evolved is a style of play thats pitiful. In the last 12 hours I've run into 3 different sticks who are reasonably good but choose to hide behind numbers, body guards and plane type. All 3 are decent sticks and "top scorers" and have a measure of respect in the MA based on a flawed concept of what good is. Back in the old days these guys would be widely ridiculed and ignored by the better players and the squads.

what we have is strictly "RR" arenas, all i'm asking for is a true "FR" equivalent where the entire object isn't to set up a vulch or a 5/1 numbers advantage. Let the children have there fun but give the adults a place to play as well.

[bj229r]

I believe, as has been pointed out elsewhere, that the most  likely solution for Humble's dilemma is the possible return of H2H, as mentioned by HiTech a couple weeks ago--It will be expanded to more than 8 players, whoever is running the room can pick the map (they used to make their OWN maps), and, most importantly, the host (whatever the term 'host' will be redefined as, since the room will be running on AH servers) can choose who is ALLOWED in his room, hence no squeakers in hordes/squads of Tempests and F4u4's orbiting the fight at 15k I've even seen rooms where the host put an UPward 100+ knot wind at the cap alt, and if you passed it, you couldn't go back down if you wanted to.

I see GREAT possibilities for this

[humble]

A certain player group likes to advocate we should all adapt to the arena caps etc, so why won't they adapt to the 'new' style of play?

A good question and a simple answer, there is no real challenge in the "new style" of play at all for some of us. Score is easy to manipulate and the variables in the formula so far from realistic. Lets look at the "top"  pilot in score pacerr, he's got most of his fighter kills in a tempest. Look at his other scores in various fighters. He highlights everything wrong with the way the game is measured. In a good scoring system a guy with a 1/1 kill ratio in a 109E or similiar should rank above a guy like this.

Just guessing i'd say a guy like Greebo should be the #1 fighter score. He's flying a mid eny plane without any padding. Personally I think all perk ride scores should be discounted from "fighter" score and the kills adjusted for eny. So if a guy in an Eny 40 plane kills a eny 5 fighter he should get credit for 8 kills and the other guy should get 8 deaths.

[bj229r]

If you make an H2H room, you can remove Tempests!

[Guppy35]

And maybe the game has passed a bunch of us 'vets' by.  I remember reading something Blue Baron wrote at the end or Airwarrior, and he talked about the waves of players that come and go and how the game continues to evolve.  He also talked about each group of 'vets' mourning the loss of 'their' game as the next new wave of players came through.  It feels a bit like that to me right now.

I'm in agreement with those saying it's more about gamers now then flight sim guys.  I suppose it's just the nature of the beast.  I can't begrudge HTC the income and expanding the player base is what makes it happen.  That means attracting the gamers.

It makes it hard for those of us who play the game for a different reason.  Wading through the mob to find like minded players gets harder and harder.

[Widewing]

Maybe it's time to have a relaxed realism arena for the gamers, that would include external views and stall limiter always enabled.

In the full realism arena, double the perks on all perk planes and require 30 troops for a base capture. Place emphasis on destroying large, tough to kill strats, hopefully inducing bomber missions, or perhaps ground attacks into strats near the front lines. This should drive the gamers where they can play and provide the sim guys an arena where base capture alone is not a driving factor.

HTC could satisfy both segments of the player population.

Just thinking in text....


My regards,

Widewing

[macleod01]

If you make an H2H room, you can remove Tempests!

Thats not his point, you wont EVER be able to make a H2H room with the posisblity of 100 people in it. It just wont be feasuble. What happens if 7 people make that?

Humble's Idea IMO is a fantastic idea. I am no where near a good stick, I dont have a rank, and Im growing tired of the game play. I like a long fight with good fun twined with learning. Nowadays in the MA it just doesnt happen. If I look at a 1v1, or even if I start fighting with a few cons, im almost guaranteed to be picked or HOed. I should go to the DA. Indeed I tried. What resulted was exactly the saem behavior, simply on a smaller scale. Instead of a massive furball, I had 2 or three folk, diving in trying for the pick. If they missed, they did a U turn and HOed you.

Humble isn't suggesting changing the MA. He isnt saying 'Make the pickers and HOers and sqeakers convert to MY way of playing.' Quite the opposite, he is suggesting a new arena, so that those players that I listed can continue with what they find fun. Its their $14.99 as well. But a new arena, where the 'Older' generation of AW vets etc can go, and fight with proper ACM and be rewarded for it, and the 'Younger' generation who want to learn ACM (Myself) can go, and be taught the hard way, by Vets still willing to teach those who are willing, and honour the old code of flying.

I get the feeling in escence, you want to go back to the WW1 style of fighting, where it was chivalrous, and honourable. I totally agree, and I would definetly fly in that new arena more than in the MA.

[pervert]

I hoped CT was gonna change all this. But humbles right this isnt a game for a flight sim fan anymore most people only seem to want to get a high score and will go to any lengths to acheive that. I always prefared H2H and a door policy, the MA is so predictable sometimes people taking down the vh and ack to set up mass vulchings with no intentions of taking the base its always been that way but now it seems like an organized artform to boost score, and then the backslapping and wtgs on 200 as they land their kills

[Anaxogoras]

A certain player group likes to advocate we should all adapt to the arena caps etc, so why won't they adapt to the 'new' style of play?

A good question and a simple answer, there is no real challenge in the "new style" of play at all for some of us. Score is easy to manipulate and the variables in the formula so far from realistic. Lets look at the "top"  pilot in score pacerr, he's got most of his fighter kills in a tempest. Look at his other scores in various fighters. He highlights everything wrong with the way the game is measured. In a good scoring system a guy with a 1/1 kill ratio in a 109E or similiar should rank above a guy like this.

Just guessing i'd say a guy like Greebo should be the #1 fighter score. He's flying a mid eny plane without any padding. Personally I think all perk ride scores should be discounted from "fighter" score and the kills adjusted for eny. So if a guy in an Eny 40 plane kills a eny 5 fighter he should get credit for 8 kills and the other guy should get 8 deaths.

When I suggested that fighter rank be modified by ENY I was called a "score nanny."