Mk 108: the unter-cannon

[hubsonfire]

What games you play on stream hubs?

[hijack] DoD Source mainly, played around with RO and HL2 DM a bit, but I've uninstalled them for the moment.[/hijack]

I've mostly had good luck with the larger cannons, but occasionally hit someone squarely in the cockpit, engine, wing root, etc and watch them fly off, leaving me wondering what's wrong. I even shot an F6 directly in the nose, head on from less than 1K, with a Firefly- he started leaking coolant or fuel, but flew away and landed just fine.

It certainly seems as though there's something amiss with either the big guns, or the damage model in general.

[PFactorDave]

I think everyone falls victim to "Rubber Bullet Syndrome" occaisionally.  Hazards of online gaming.

[hubsonfire]

It's not supposed to be possible in AH (assuming you have Vsync enabled).

[Curlew]

Pic of the moment of impact.

(Image removed from quote.)

Not even a scratch. Nice.

I have disocvered that any hit behind the cockpit and infront of the tail, in that mid fusilage, really does nothing, all yiou can hope for is puting enough rounds in it to make it explode, i have also had bad luck, especialy at that angel

[Wedge1126]

It's not supposed to be possible in AH (assuming you have Vsync enabled).

What does Vsync have to do with "Rubber Bullet Syndrome"?

[hubsonfire]

You'd have to ask HTC about that one for a definitive answer. It involves how things work at the hardware level, and some aspects of the game code and position updates that I don't fully understand.

The packets that your PC transmits to the server, which relays them to your opponent, aren't dropped if they can't immediately be sent- the game keeps trying to send them until they are received by your opponent- so that there can't really be "rubber bullet syndrome", as it's been explained to us, except in the case of Vsync being disabled, and extremely high frames per second being rendered on your front end.

[Bodhi]

Once a wing or tail is gone that plane is finished. If we didn't have people that shoot at them when they are floating down to earth then we wouldn't have to worry about wasting ammo on a dead plane so you don't get it stolen from you.

BS.  It's a game and that's how it works.  If you don't like the model don't play.

Personally I love stealing kills from people that will whine about it.

[Spikes]

IMO once a plane has a whole wing or its tail missing it should act like a friendly when someone shoots at it. You shoot a plane that's already down you killshoot yourself.

Second film should have been an instent pilot kill.

What if there's lag, or your already shooting at it? Killshoot yourself for the computers mistake..nice.

Like Karnak said, have it like COD, when the guys's dead but the body is falling or something, it does no damage even though it's still "alive" to a point (not lying on the ground).

[Spikes]

Pic of the moment of impact.

(Image removed from quote.)

Not even a scratch. Nice.

Sometimes computers have their faults, you know.

[Anaxogoras]

Sometimes computers have their faults, you know.

Not a computer error, I'm afraid.  The hit definitely registered on his machine because otherwise I wouldn't have received an assist message later.  This is an error in the game, in the way it models the Mk 108.

[SectorNine50]

I actually believe it's where you hit the A/C.  It seems like it's behind the cockpit, but in front of where the tail section separates in the damage model.

[Xasthur]

The assist has nothing to do with the Mk 108. Look at the damage model as a 'point accumulation' system and each component has a limit of 100 points. If you're wingman is using .50 cal and he get hits on the wing, fuselage and tail section the points would be allocated like this, for example, wing = 60 damage points, fuselage = 40 points, tail section = 30 points. That's a total of 130 damage points allocated to your wingman for that enemy aircraft.

If you come along and put a 30mm round onto the wing, you're awarded 100 damage points and you see the structural failure of the aircraft. However, your wingman has already registered 130 damage points on the aircraft you disabled so he is awarded the kill.

The damage points accumulate to their maximum and the kill is awarded. If you hit an aircraft that only has 5 points left before it reaches the maximum you could it with a nuclear weapon and still get the assist because the system will only acknowledge the 5 points the aircraft had remaining before failure point was reached.

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On to the second one.... the 30mm cannon, whilst devastating, is not an assured kill from a single round. It is possible for a round to pass through the fuselage and have the aircraft survive... I am pretty sure that I've seen a photo of a Spitfire with a gaping hole in the fuselage from a 30mm round.

Having said that, I have noticed several times lately that I have fighters fly on unabated after I hit them with 30mm and 20mm but this only happens in the Ta 152.

I have film on a 30mm hit on the wing root of a 190 A8 that flew on with no visible sign of damage. I put more rounds into that left wing and it still didn't come off... I had to hose it down with 30mm and 20mm to get it to break up. It did break up into lots of pieces, so clearly lots of hits registered... but it just seems odd that the same hits in a 109 would have killed it immediately. 30mm hits on the wing = instant death when I land those hits in a 109.

[Anaxogoras]

The assist has nothing to do with the Mk 108. Look at the damage model as a 'point accumulation' system and each component has a limit of 100 points. If you're wingman is using .50 cal and he get hits on the wing, fuselage and tail section the points would be allocated like this, for example, wing = 60 damage points, fuselage = 40 points, tail section = 30 points. That's a total of 130 damage points allocated to your wingman for that enemy aircraft.

If you come along and put a 30mm round onto the wing, you're awarded 100 damage points and you see the structural failure of the aircraft. However, your wingman has already registered 130 damage points on the aircraft you disabled so he is awarded the kill.

The damage points accumulate to their maximum and the kill is awarded. If you hit an aircraft that only has 5 points left before it reaches the maximum you could it with a nuclear weapon and still get the assist because the system will only acknowledge the 5 points the aircraft had remaining before failure point was reached.

What you're saying makes it sound like the damage model favors aircraft that rely on a high rof over those that rely on high lethality per round when it comes to awarding kills.

On to the second one.... the 30mm cannon, whilst devastating, is not an assured kill from a single round. It is possible for a round to pass through the fuselage and have the aircraft survive... I am pretty sure that I've seen a photo of a Spitfire with a gaping hole in the fuselage from a 30mm round.

I don't think AH models shells failing to detonate.

[BnZs]

I have noticed the same effect with Ostwind/FG vrs. Wirbel.

Get a ping that destroys (and out of WW range), get an "assist" because the wreckage followed a course that brought it into range of the WWs.

Its not that hard to understand why this happens.. Although the 30mm does massive damage to the part it pings, the 20mms or .50s or whatever have a higher ROF and you can lad far more hits AND damage in a given period of time, although that damage may well be scattered all across the target and thus not even rip off any parts.

[Noir]

lets face it the AH2 damage model is from the 80's