Author Topic: weight of statistics on rank  (Read 571 times)

Offline CavemanJ

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weight of statistics on rank
« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2001, 05:02:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Dead Man Flying:
Are we talking fighter rank alone here or overall rank?

-- Todd/DMF

I started this thread talking ONLY about FIGHTER rank.  I've no idea why people are mentioning overall rank.

Offline Dead Man Flying

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« Reply #16 on: March 07, 2001, 05:14:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by CavemanJ:
I started this thread talking ONLY about FIGHTER rank.  I've no idea why people are mentioning overall rank.

In that case, I'd look at four key stats as a measure of ranking here.  Namely, Kill to Death ratio, Kill to Sortie ratio, Time per Kill, and Hit Percentage.

If we weight them all equally, you'll see that Pilot 1 has a hit percentage that is five times greater than that of Pilot 2.  Pilot 1 also kills planes at a rate nearly twice as fast as Pilot 2.

On the other hand, Pilot 2 has a K/D ratio roughly 2.5 times greater than Pilot 1, and a Kills per Sortie ratio about 1.5 times greater.  If we weight all categories equally, Pilot 1 is the better overall pilot despite the lower kill ratios.

-- Todd/DMF


Offline Voss

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« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2001, 12:28:00 AM »
The only *time* I am interested in is the period between squeezing the trigger and scoring a kill. Time to alt and time to fight mean nothing. How does either gauge pilot skill? Poorly, in my estimation.

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Offline Jekyll

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« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2001, 12:36:00 AM »
 
Quote
The only *time* I am interested in is the period between squeezing the trigger and scoring a kill. Time to alt and time to fight mean nothing. How does either gauge pilot skill? Poorly, in my estimation.

Agreed Voss... particularly hard to compare for example, a US pilot who logs on at night to find 180 online with an Asia/Pacific pilot who logs on during HIS evenings and finds 15-20 online.

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Offline Pongo

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« Reply #19 on: March 08, 2001, 01:11:00 AM »
Buerling
"I think the current system is set up as a balance between the k/d fliers and the Quake fliers. It seems if you fly alot and are amass a large number of kills/points you are ranked higher than if you fly a lower number of missions and fly them better.

"
by better you mean the mission you should be accomplishing is accompished right? not that you got some crosses on your plane and kept your skin whole. If a mission to strafe a dozen osties in ponys comes up your there right? Thats how militaries rate success.
 
I aggree that it is hard to find a value in time per kill. what does that have to do with anything? Its like a stat that rated Alt per kill or time of kill. who cares?

Offline Dead Man Flying

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« Reply #20 on: March 08, 2001, 03:01:00 AM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Voss:
The only *time* I am interested in is the period between squeezing the trigger and scoring a kill. Time to alt and time to fight mean nothing. How does either gauge pilot skill? Poorly, in my estimation.

If all of these categories are weighted equally, then it provides a balance between furball-style skills (quick to the fight, quick to kill, plenty of kills per hour regardless of deaths) and flying to live (K/D and K/S ratios).  Hit percentage can be shared by either type of pilot, I'd think.

That means, of equally weighted categories, those who fly to live have TWO categories that favor them, one that's neutral, and one that doesn't favor them.  Furballers have only one category that favors their flying style.  The advantage would seem to be with those who fly to live anyway.

Pilot 2 should really brush up on gunnery skills.

-- Todd/DMF

Offline CavemanJ

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« Reply #21 on: March 08, 2001, 06:29:00 AM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Dead Man Flying:
Pilot 2 should really brush up on gunnery skills.

-- Todd/DMF

Actually, pilot 2 should really learn to keep his guns off ack when perched over an enemy base on a fighter sortie, and noone else will go in to get the last remaining few.

 

Offline AKDejaVu

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« Reply #22 on: March 08, 2001, 09:07:00 AM »
The kills/time is necessary to promote engagements.  Take it away and everyone is flying the fastest plane looking only for easy kills... running away from anything that isn't.  I can understand why no on-line fighter sim wants to promote that.

Remember, there is no sense of mission in this game other than player self-induced.  There is nothing requiring a player to engage another player.  Thus, the kills/time.  Engagement is encouraged.

Some may feel it is historically inaccurate to do this, and they'd be right.  What they may be neglecting is the fact that fighters went up with a mission... escort... jabo... fighter sweep... whatever.  That means they often had to engage in less than ideal conditions.... and not always with numbers.  AH gives you the ability to pick and chose your fights.

Of all the stats, K/T is the one I ignore.  But I do understand the need for it.  I fly to live.  I try to shoot when I'm pretty sure I can connect.  Of course, if you flew the Yak, you would too.  Lephturn was right on about spraying and praying "Because he can afford to"

When you start to weight the statistics in a particular manner, you start to skew the way people fly.  Furballers have a lower K/D than the safety flyers... about even in the K/S... about even in gunnery % and higher in k/t.  Tell me how this isn't evening out?

I do know that the people that traditionally have lead the fighter rankings weren't the pure furballers.  They were the people that liked to come in with a distinct advantage and had the ability to hit what they were aiming at... and more than a tad bit of ACM skills thrown in on top of that.

AKDejaVu

Offline SKurj

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« Reply #23 on: March 08, 2001, 11:02:00 AM »
I disagree Deja... do u think if K/time were removed it would make any difference whatsoever?
I don't..

SKurj


Beurling

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« Reply #24 on: March 08, 2001, 12:17:00 PM »
Anyone else seen this before " You flyxxx Amount of time xxx amount of missions. You suck get a life lamer."

This is one of the worst ways i have seen to disparage a opponant. I would like to see no k/time just to get rid of these arguements. K/time or time spent is my buisness no one elses.How much you play should not be able to be seen by others.

EYE

Offline AKDejaVu

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« Reply #25 on: March 08, 2001, 12:20:00 PM »
 
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I disagree Deja... do u think if K/time were removed it would make any difference whatsoever?

If it affected ranking, yes it would.  As it is, a number of people ignore it.  Remove it and watch rankings change then see what happens.  Or more to the point... listen to what happens.

AKDejaVu

Offline CavemanJ

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« Reply #26 on: March 08, 2001, 02:13:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
If it affected ranking, yes it would.  As it is, a number of people ignore it.  Remove it and watch rankings change then see what happens.  Or more to the point... listen to what happens.

AKDejaVu

Aye DJ, the Quake-bird pilots would really start howling then  

I'm wondering if only points, Hit%, K/D, K/S, and K/T are factored in the ranking.  The only place the other pilot has me is Hit%, points (and only by 24), and K/T.  He has more sorties than I do, but I've got twice as many landed.  I've also got not quite double the kills and 5x the assists.

Or are kills and assists just bundled together in points, and that's where they count in the ranking?  If so, are the points scored by total damage done?  Every time I've come across 'pilot 1' he's been in a cannon bird (NOT an n1k or -1C though).  Of course his 20mm are going to do more damage than the 4x.50 on my pony, which would lead to more points if that's how they're scored.
Which leads a major skewing of the system IMO.

Offline AKDejaVu

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« Reply #27 on: March 08, 2001, 02:54:00 PM »
Cavey, I think the main difference would be the ammount of people separating you two in each category.  It doesn't matter that you are close to him if 500 people are even closer.  This is most prevelant in K/T where the difference between .0011 and .0014 could be 500 people.  However, the difference between gunnery accuracy of .13% and .09% might only be 100 people.  Relatively close in both stats, but the outcome will be in his favor.

I think more of the problem comes in the way things are displayed.  It can be quite misleading.

That said, the best pilots, no matter how you score them are going to be the ones that vulch exclusively.  No matter how you track the results, it will never be indicative of the method.

Maybe we just need more <S> GREAT FLYING! in the arena.

AKDejaVu

Offline Spivey

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« Reply #28 on: March 14, 2001, 03:48:00 AM »
May I just say that the thing that really hooked me on AH is the advanced strategy you get to be involved in. With WB it became monotonous to either go on monster base capturing raids where you could easily overwhelm defenders, or simpy dogfight all afternoon in drag and bag fests.

I think the kill/time stat is a way to allow someone who CANNOT play that often to still rank with those who stay on all day long racking up HUGE point totals. It also rewards those who are being very effective.

And no one has mentioned the poor faithful souls who die repeatedly defending a base against overwhelming odds. Where is the point benefit in that? THESE guys are the real pilots IMO.



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Offline bowser

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« Reply #29 on: March 14, 2001, 08:35:00 AM »
You guys keep forgetting about that other stat used in fighter rankings...points.  With some exceptions, the more you fly, the more points you will have.  Which makes fighter rankings pretty useless in a real evalution of skill.

bowser