Skuzzy, Vista 64 bit question

[Wolfala]

Skuzzy,


A guy was asking for advice on a laptop for his kid going off to college and the question of Vista 64 came up. Naturally I cringed - others said XP, myself included to avoid headaches.

One of the guys making a suggestion responded "I'd be surprised if the college doesn't provide recommendations and discounts on recommended hardware/software.  At all colleges I'm familiar with, Office is almost required to get a degree so why not get him the lastest & best.  Anyone can get a copy of Office 2007 Home & Student (Word, Excel, Powerpoint, OneNote) for under $100 and it's a license for 3 machines.  That's $33 for a vast improvement in your son's education.  OneNote alone is worth the price.  I don't even know your son & I know he is worth the $33 to get Office 2007 that's guaranteed to run in 64bit Vista.

Contrary to what some people are telling you, Vista is a dramatically better operating system and will only get better.  XP is dead and required only by vampires who can't stand the light of day.  Vista security improvements alone are important and a student will need all the security help they can get (virus trading music & other crap).  The UI is pretty. etc etc

The only problems I've had in 64bit Windows (several machines) were hardware drivers as I went with 64bit on day 1.  Most/all of that has been sorted out.  Hard core gamers have had problems because game software is extremely high strung and tightly tied to hardware/software.  Don't decide your son's college future on a few hard core games."

Now I know this guy is pretty much full of poop - but how would you respond to it? I know the first moment I saw software I could not run, i'd be poop canning it.

[Skuzzy]

There are people who completely buy into the Microsoft marketing spiel.  They sit through the marketing gatherings Microsoft does (under the guise of a technical meeting) and drool at the thought of having what Microsoft is marketing next.

Vista will get better.  When Microsoft releases SP3 for Vista under the name of "Windows 7", it will be better, theoritically.  Early reports of Windows 7 are not looking too promising, but it is still early.  Why anyone would buy Vista only to have to buy the SP3 upgrade in a year is beyond me.  It will be interesting to see how people respond to having to purchase, what amounts to, a service pack for the operating system.  Paying Microsoft to fix design flaws in Vista is pretty balsy, if you ask me.

Another reason IT guys are so hot to trot about Vista is they finally have an operating system which can be set to nanny the user to death with worthless warnings that only serve to create paranoia with the user.

The problem with laptops, is you are stuck with what they offer.  The chances of upgrading are pretty slim.  Going from XP to windows 7 may not be an option.  Right now is a tough time to be buying a laptop.

Personally, I would stick with XP as it is a known quantity and I refuse to support an operating system that is simply a bad design that will get fixed *someday*.

[Chalenge]

By 'dramatically better' he must mean by protecting Hollywood and the music industry (DRM) and the eye-candy user interface. Tell him he really needs a laptop with 8 gigs of RAM to give Vista 64 legs and whatever you do warn him NOT to put Norton on it.

Putting Vista 64 on a laptop is like sending it to prison with bigger PCs and no soap-on-a-rope. 

[mipoikel]

Buy a business laptop with Vista business and downgrade it to XP. At least here, most of them even come with XP-recoverydisk.

Only consumer laptops and PC.s are the problem.

And what comes to Office, it is one of the better MS products.

Myself I dont have had any problems with vista in Home use. In work... well... I dont want to say anything. 

[Getback]

Just read a article on this and it pretty much said what skuzzy said. That is when you buy Windows 7 you are getting vista sp3. You could read the anger between the lines of the guy. He had purchased the 64bit Vista version and now has to buy sp3 if he wants improvement.

As for me, I will let others try it first. I'm very skeptical about all of this.

[Skuzzy]

Absolutely avoid Norton at all costs if you go with Vista.  That combination is an abomination you will regret.

[Ghastly]

In general, I've been suggesting that folks stay away from N 360 regardless of which OS they are running.  The worst messes I've cleaned up over the last year or so were BOTH XP running N 360, and while any system can get in trouble if it's not protected, in both instances these were being kept fully updated by the user of the system. And in both instances, I couldn't even clean up the mess until I nuked N 360 and installed something else.

There was a time when I wouldn't have considered running anything but a Norton A/v - but those days are long past.

<S>

[eagl]

I think my squadron is getting new computers in the next month or so and they reportedly have both vista and norton antivirus corporate (symantec antivirus) on them, in addition to the other usual corporate spyware the USAF network managers use to keep us from browsing porn or selling secrets to the Russkies.  I'll report back how badly it sucks (or if it works ok) when I see the new desktops and use them for a week or two.

[Chalenge]

EAGL Vista of any flavor with Norton preinstalled is like buying a computer you already know has a virus.

Just saying.

[eagl]

EAGL Vista of any flavor with Norton preinstalled is like buying a computer you already know has a virus.

Just saying.

I didn't buy it...  And the lifecycle of this batch will probably exceed the date that microsoft quits fully supporting winXP, so the purchasers probably had no choice.

[Sincraft]

There are people who completely buy into the Microsoft marketing spiel.  They sit through the marketing gatherings Microsoft does (under the guise of a technical meeting) and drool at the thought of having what Microsoft is marketing next.

Vista will get better.  When Microsoft releases SP3 for Vista under the name of "Windows 7", it will be better, theoritically.  Early reports of Windows 7 are not looking too promising, but it is still early.  Why anyone would buy Vista only to have to buy the SP3 upgrade in a year is beyond me.  It will be interesting to see how people respond to having to purchase, what amounts to, a service pack for the operating system.  Paying Microsoft to fix design flaws in Vista is pretty balsy, if you ask me.

Another reason IT guys are so hot to trot about Vista is they finally have an operating system which can be set to nanny the user to death with worthless warnings that only serve to create paranoia with the user.

The problem with laptops, is you are stuck with what they offer.  The chances of upgrading are pretty slim.  Going from XP to windows 7 may not be an option.  Right now is a tough time to be buying a laptop.

Personally, I would stick with XP as it is a known quantity and I refuse to support an operating system that is simply a bad design that will get fixed *someday*.

Not sure what IT guys you speak of Skuzzy, maybe in small operations - but in a domain group worth it's weight in salt, group policy dictates and thus wsus servers and sms predicate their outcome.  Vista will only be a hinder at first while we learn the ins and outs. 

The problem with Vista is three fold.  Programmers not willing to change and a company (M$) not willing to bend.   Couple that with inherit flaws and bugs well, and wallah...you have vista. 

[MrRiplEy[H]]

It's not about willing to change - programming costs money so MS caused huge losses in form of unnecessary research and modification in both drivers and software when it deviated from the norm. I mean how stupid is it to block applications from installing properly to program files?

I would fire the guy who brainstormed this idea: Hey let's put UAC to nag about every change and block and/or move all dynamic files from the location where 99% of programs are installed by default.

[Skuzzy]

Sincraft, remember the IT guys whose creedo was, "No one ever got fired for buying IBM"?  Those are the same guys that are buying Vista.

I know several IT guys who think Vista is the best thing since sliced bread.  Two of them work for Fortune 500 companies.

Not all IT guys are morons, but unfortunately, the morons outnumber the good ones.  Even the good ones do stupid things.  They have a tendency to over complicate a network.  I was called in on a consulting job once as the owner had lost confidence in his IT guy.

I walk in and there is a domain controller with directory services and the whole MS shee-bang running.  I asked the owner how he uses his network.  After 15 minutes of talking to him I shut all of it off and it did not impact his operation one bit.

I asked the IT guy why he had configured the network the way he did.  His answer was that is what he was taught by Microsoft when he got his certification.  I have since noticed that seems to be a mantra many IT folks carry around with them.

You have to admire how Microsoft has sold people a bill of goods and they are drinking the kool-aid everyday.  Simply brilliant.

[TilDeath]

Absolutely avoid Norton at all costs if you go with Vista.  That combination is an abomination you will regret.

Esets NOD32 works very well with Vista and even has a higher reliability against attacks, updates a few times a day rather then weekly.

[Wingnutt]

Im running vista64 and have no problems whatsoever except the dual core AMD + AH issue that pops up every once in a while, but that isnt's Vista's fault, every other game and program ive run works amazing.

I upgraded to Vista mainly so Im not restrained to 3 gb or less ram, and to take get full advantage of DX10.  FSX actually runs better for me under vista than it did under XP by a very noticable margine (due mainly to being able to use the DX10 features im guessing)

Vista isnt all bad, unless you try to cram it onto an outdated system, but hating it is really popular now, so if you wanna go for the "informed non-conformist" look, stick with XP.  Or if you REALLY wanna be badass, go lunux or mac, probably have a fit making AH work smooth, but BOY wont you look COOOL.