opinion on which is harder..air or GV

[Patches1]

Just my opinion here....

but I think your individual skill, in either an aircraft, or GV, is relevant to the Arena in which you choose to learn those skills.

Personally, I prefer to learn in the Training Arena...others choose to learn in the...Early War, Mid War, Late War, or  Dueling Arena...where difficulty is often gaged upon how well, or more often, how unprepared you are to meet your opposition.

I'd bet my LIFE that no Soldier, Sailor, Airman, or Marine has ever deployed into Combat without first visiting some sort of Training Arena that would test his/her individual skillset.

Good Air/Ground Skillsets have been tested in Combat, and when combined, are nearly unsurmountable. Ask the Marines!

[19kilo10(ironnite)]

A tank can give an a/c a NASTY surprise! But then....so can an M3 or LVT or a humble jeep. NEVER underestimate the power of the pintle mg when ur boring right in on a strafing run

[humble]

At this point its not even possible to compare the two. The air combat aspect is as realistic as "they" can make it while the GV component is totally arcadish. While certain fundementals do go along way the reality is that 90% of "GV skill" is just gaming the game.

[bmwgs]

At this point its not even possible to compare the two. The air combat aspect is as realistic as "they" can make it while the GV component is totally arcadish. While certain fundementals do go along way the reality is that 90% of "GV skill" is just gaming the game.

Realistic? Flip flopping 38s, top spinning Spitfires, dive bombing Lancaster's, and one of my favorites, turns that would pop a pilots eyes out like corks from a champagne bottle (probably spelled that wrong).  I could name a few more, but this is realistic flying.  Looks to me the air game is just as gamey as the GV game.

But that's Fred's opinion,

Fred

[grizz441]

There's a lot more to master in a plane than there is in a GV.  The main thing that makes the planes so tough is that it could take years to get very good with the proper textbook air combat maneuvers.  All you gotta do with GV's is drive em.

[stroker71]

I find both fun to try to master.  Like others here tanks are the most fun.  Planes have dar dars (big dar lots of planes), easier to spot, easier to ID.  Getting avarage in either takes time.   The thrill of the hunt is what gets me going in gv and it the best when there isn't planes around for either side to do spotting or egging.  GVing is alot more fun now that you can't turn your graphics down to make the trees go away.

[bongaroo]

Realistic? Flip flopping 38s, top spinning Spitfires, dive bombing Lancaster's, and one of my favorites, turns that would pop a pilots eyes out like corks from a champagne bottle (probably spelled that wrong).  I could name a few more, but this is realistic flying.  Looks to me the air game is just as gamey as the GV game.

But that's Fred's opinion,

Fred

You complain about flipflopping 38s?  If a 38 is that low on E your aim must be attrocious or you need to learn to not fall for a good rope.

Not sure what you mean about top spinning spitfires unless your talking about the funny spin they do when you've roped one outta all his E.

Yes, dive bombing lancs are dumb.

Last but not least, show me a film where the pilots eyes woulda popped under the g load, I'm curious to see it.

[bmwgs]

You complain about flipflopping 38s?  If a 38 is that low on E your aim must be attrocious or you need to learn to not fall for a good rope.

Not sure what you mean about top spinning spitfires unless your talking about the funny spin they do when you've roped one outta all his E.

Yes, dive bombing lancs are dumb.

Last but not least, show me a film where the pilots eyes woulda popped under the g load, I'm curious to see it.

Pull in those horse reins.  I never said one thing about complaining. 

I was just responding to the realistic nature of the game.  As for proving anything, well its really not my intent, because most know what I am talking about.  If you (they) don't agree, then don't, I'm not here to change anyones opinion, I'm just putting my two cents in.

Respectfully,

Fred

[Kazaa]

Air to air. 

[Dream Child]

A tank can give an a/c a NASTY surprise! But then....so can an M3 or LVT or a humble jeep. NEVER underestimate the power of the pintle mg when ur boring right in on a strafing run

Why would I use the pintle gun when I have a 76mm?

[LYNX]

Learning air combat  is like learning the intricate steps and understanding the pasion, courtship and jealousy of the Tango.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=R7_rnucyZg8



Where as learning to Gv is just hemp on any old hook.

[humble]

Realistic? Flip flopping 38s, top spinning Spitfires, dive bombing Lancaster's, and one of my favorites, turns that would pop a pilots eyes out like corks from a champagne bottle (probably spelled that wrong).  I could name a few more, but this is realistic flying.  Looks to me the air game is just as gamey as the GV game.

But that's Fred's opinion,

Fred

Thats simply your lack of understanding of either real air to air combat or real tank warfare.

you can find literally hundreds of real life examples of pilots stalling spinning and literally popping the rivets on the plane to survive....even diving heavies (not that I agree with the formation BS)...the vast majority of what you see is not only historically possible but more then likely happened numerous times.

Now lets look at the GV game.

1) Penetrating hits in WW2 were almost 100% fatal. Further the dynamics of shot impact dictated that a shell of a certain diameter relative to armor thickness would penetrate with 100% certainty unless deflected. All to ften you see non richochets that "flash" like a hit with no effect. 2nd, spalling was a major source of destroyed tanks in WW2, this is a shell that cant penetrate but transfers enough energy to force splinters of the sheet on the inside of the tank. There is none of this "sweet spot" garbage in tank warfare. now that does not mean that a hit on the mantlet or thick part of the armor will not be absorbed. But there is no probability of failure on a 76mm AP round on the flat side armor of an opposing tank at short range....none period.

Further there is no cumulative damage, in WW2 a tank dies or lives. It does not matter if you hit the guy 4 times at an ineffective range...the guy who actually scores the killing shot should get the kill...not the case...just like planes straffing tanks and getting kills. There is no true skill in GVing other then the appropriate use of terrain...which is offset by all the gamey use of terrain. GVing is at this point a largely skillless undertaking.

[bmwgs]

Thats simply your lack of understanding of either real air to air combat or real tank warfare.

you can find literally hundreds of real life examples of pilots stalling spinning and literally popping the rivets on the plane to survive....even diving heavies (not that I agree with the formation BS)...the vast majority of what you see is not only historically possible but more then likely happened numerous times.
Now lets look at the GV game.

1) Penetrating hits in WW2 were almost 100% fatal. Further the dynamics of shot impact dictated that a shell of a certain diameter relative to armor thickness would penetrate with 100% certainty unless deflected. All to ften you see non richochets that "flash" like a hit with no effect. 2nd, spalling was a major source of destroyed tanks in WW2, this is a shell that cant penetrate but transfers enough energy to force splinters of the sheet on the inside of the tank. There is none of this "sweet spot" garbage in tank warfare. now that does not mean that a hit on the mantlet or thick part of the armor will not be absorbed. But there is no probability of failure on a 76mm AP round on the flat side armor of an opposing tank at short range....none period.

Further there is no cumulative damage, in WW2 a tank dies or lives. It does not matter if you hit the guy 4 times at an ineffective range...the guy who actually scores the killing shot should get the kill...not the case...just like planes straffing tanks and getting kills. There is no true skill in GVing other then the appropriate use of terrain...which is offset by all the gamey use of terrain. GVing is at this point a largely skillless undertaking.

Funny how people that don't know me just assume  my lack of knowledge.  I just let that one go though.

As for the " historically possible but more then likely happened numerous times", you are absolutely correct.  I'm sure these things happened, just before they crashed into the ground.  To see one of these planes go into a flip flop type spin, or any other type of violent spin 500 feet off the ground and then recover, well, I tend to doubt that.

Now, I am not a student of WWII Flight History, but I do read some of the, I believe they call them AAR's (After Action Reports), that I have found on the internet.  I have yet to find one that is even close to describing how they went into a violent spin 500 feet off the ground to avoid being shot down, and then were able to recover and kill their opponent.  I'm sure there are several hundred thousand of these AAR's out there, so I guess there could be a few where it actually occurred.  To convince me that this was a regular tactic as in this game, well, I don't think so. 

As for your lengthy description on the GVs, I never said that side of the game was not a bit gamey.  I just don't agree that the air side is so pure.

I guess the point I am trying to make is this is a game, a cartoon game, and there is essentially no connection to reality.  I doubt that anyone in this game, without previous pilot training, could ever get a B17 off the ground based on their ability to play this game.  I won't even get into the carrier takeoffs and landings. 

If one wants to live in a fantasy world where they believe that this game is so close to reality, and they could actually do the things that the pilots in WWII  did, well, so be it.  I will keep the perspective that this is a great game and I love playing it, but I will never think that it is anything close to reality.

Again this is only my opinion,

Fred

[Lusche]

which is offset by all the gamey use of terrain. GVing is at this point a largely skillless undertaking.

Gamey use of terrain?

[Delirium]

Realistic? Flip flopping 38s

It has been discussed already, check out page 3 in particular.

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,242664.0.html