Author Topic: B-52  (Read 1388 times)

Offline Hornet33

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Re: B-52
« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2008, 08:40:59 AM »
I always liked this video. Talk about a big plane doing some crazy stuff. Half way through the video they pull into the vertical, roll inverted over the top and pull back down into the vertical, then roll out.

Course this plane was designed to be able to do those sorts of things. Talked to one pilot at an airshow and he said the B1-B flys like a heavy F-4 Phantom with a smoother ride.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdUeP7ROq-U&feature=related
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Offline oakranger

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Re: B-52
« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2008, 11:39:58 AM »
I'm probably mistaken but I think the pilot was the squadron commander and, as shown in the clip, he had been doing things like this for some time.

I'm trying to find where I read the write up on the crash and pilot.  I'll be back if I can find it.


(there's always wiki....)


wrongway


Yes do.  I just cant imagine that the AF would aloud any bodyd to fly that bomber like that. 
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Offline 33Vortex

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Re: B-52
« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2008, 12:28:53 PM »

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Offline MORAY37

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Re: B-52
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2008, 01:02:27 PM »
I'm probably mistaken but I think the pilot was the squadron commander and, as shown in the clip, he had been doing things like this for some time.

I'm trying to find where I read the write up on the crash and pilot.  I'll be back if I can find it.


(there's always wiki....)


wrongway

Actually he wasn't.  He did manage to kill his squadron CO in the crash though.

Quote
Killed in the crash were Lt Col Arthur "Bud" Holland, the Chief of the 92d Bomb Wing Standardization and Evaluation branch. Lt Col Holland, an instructor pilot, was designated as the aircraft commander and was undoubtedly flying the aircraft at the time of the accident. 4 The copilot was Lt Col Mark McGeehan, also an instructor pilot and the 325th Bomb Squadron (BMS) Commander. There is a great deal of evidence that suggests considerable animosity existed between the two pilots who were at the controls of Czar 52..
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Offline oakranger

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Re: B-52
« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2008, 01:49:24 PM »
So this Holland was a bad apple that just got his hand slap to nothing happening for breaking a lot of  flight regulations.  This who thing could have been prevented if the Wing COs grounded him permanently.

Imagine how he would be if he was in AH.  LOL, he wouldnt last long.
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Offline Rich46yo

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Re: B-52
« Reply #20 on: November 26, 2008, 02:08:00 PM »
Do you really think that the AF would let him fly that bomber like that.  If i was the CO of that base, i would told him to land that bird.    When i first saw that video, the only thing came in mind is the stress on them wings.

Not only do they "allow" it but USAF used to train B-52 crews to fly exactly like that.

What you are seeing are the actual low level nuclear weapon attacks which were developed back in the days, "my days", before standoff weapons and cruise missiles were available. "At least some of the video".

The B-52 approaches the target, say an ICBM site, at a very high subsonic speed under the radar, "you saw the bomb bay doors open on some of the buffs and even saw a practice bomb tossed out in one flight". Using the Buffs own radar to track the target the buff does a high G climb releasing the B-61, or B-83, nuclear weapon at the preset altitude. The weapon has a special drag parachute which slows it down drastically as the Buff does a radical 180% to escape the effects of the blast.  Ive also seen many a F-4 Phantom practice this radical maneuver. We used to practice the whole shebang. Pulling "dummy" specials out, convoying to a hot flight line, loading onto the aircraft, then launching the aircraft. The entire time on the clock and the attack aircraft would go on the mission using the same tactics as if a hot launch.

So this isn't "stunt flying". This is specific training for special weapons delivery. My guess is they still train for it because we still have free fall weapons of this type in inventory.

No doubt this Pilot pulled a bonehead stunt here with the crash. But this type of low level bomb release tactics is specifically trained for.
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Offline MiloMorai

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Re: B-52
« Reply #21 on: November 26, 2008, 03:31:39 PM »

Online lyric1

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Re: B-52
« Reply #22 on: November 26, 2008, 03:44:33 PM »
Interesting that he ejected knowing he was going down. I don't think he told any one else because I am sure they would have all tried if they knew what was about to happen.

Offline DiabloTX

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Re: B-52
« Reply #23 on: November 26, 2008, 03:56:43 PM »
It was the co-pilot that had a moment of clarity...albeit too late to save him.
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Offline Dadsguns

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Re: B-52
« Reply #24 on: November 26, 2008, 04:08:47 PM »
OMG, I didn't think this huge bomber can pull moves like that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQa4PpIkOZU&feature=related

I want one....


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Offline eagl

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Re: B-52
« Reply #25 on: November 26, 2008, 10:00:59 PM »
eagl, what also was a factor, probably THE biggest factor, is the practice of "officer favoritism", something that is almost never talked about.  This particular pilot, according to discussions I've seen regarding this accident, had a long history of bucking the rules and regulations flying the BUFF's, but nothing was done.  I'm pretty sure it was the officer corps taking care of their own, which, I am not stating is something you do or condone, but I know you know what I am talking about.  I saw it all too often in the Navy and never understood how they expect to hold the enlisted personnel to a high standard and then turn around and do the opposite.  I know rank has it's privilege, but to not do anything about an officer who so clearly has no regard for flight rules and regulations ultimately led to the deaths of all onboard this flight.

I can't/won't discuss some of that because the info I have on those topics came from the non-releasable safety report, not the accident report.  I'll let it go with the comment that a bunch of people were justifiably fired after this incident and the wiki linked above is fairly thorough.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2008, 10:10:41 PM by eagl »
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Offline oakranger

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Re: B-52
« Reply #26 on: November 26, 2008, 10:49:45 PM »
you sound like you know a lot about the issue.
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Offline deSelys

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Re: B-52
« Reply #27 on: November 27, 2008, 02:51:13 AM »
you sound like you know a lot about the issue.

Eagl is a RL USAF fighter pilot (now an instructor if I'm right). He wasn't good enough to fly B-52s so he had to fly those slow-assed F15s  :aok
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Offline MORAY37

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Re: B-52
« Reply #28 on: November 27, 2008, 04:25:11 AM »
Not only do they "allow" it but USAF used to train B-52 crews to fly exactly like that.

What you are seeing are the actual low level nuclear weapon attacks which were developed back in the days, "my days", before standoff weapons and cruise missiles were available. "At least some of the video".

The B-52 approaches the target, say an ICBM site, at a very high subsonic speed under the radar, "you saw the bomb bay doors open on some of the buffs and even saw a practice bomb tossed out in one flight". Using the Buffs own radar to track the target the buff does a high G climb releasing the B-61, or B-83, nuclear weapon at the preset altitude. The weapon has a special drag parachute which slows it down drastically as the Buff does a radical 180% to escape the effects of the blast.  Ive also seen many a F-4 Phantom practice this radical maneuver. We used to practice the whole shebang. Pulling "dummy" specials out, convoying to a hot flight line, loading onto the aircraft, then launching the aircraft. The entire time on the clock and the attack aircraft would go on the mission using the same tactics as if a hot launch.

So this isn't "stunt flying". This is specific training for special weapons delivery. My guess is they still train for it because we still have free fall weapons of this type in inventory.

No doubt this Pilot pulled a bonehead stunt here with the crash. But this type of low level bomb release tactics is specifically trained for.




Rich, with all due respect, "Flip or Toss Bombing" is not the same as pulling wingovers with a 250,000 lb aircraft.  The high G pullup was not the issue.  The wings perpendicular to the ground at Vs min.....  definately more of an issue in an aircraft that has a max thrust to weight of .70 fully unloaded.
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Offline Rich46yo

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Re: B-52
« Reply #29 on: November 27, 2008, 05:46:28 AM »


Rich, with all due respect, "Flip or Toss Bombing" is not the same as pulling wingovers with a 250,000 lb aircraft.  The high G pullup was not the issue.  The wings perpendicular to the ground at Vs min.....  definately more of an issue in an aircraft that has a max thrust to weight of .70 fully unloaded.

Yeah I know. Thats why I mentioned the stupid "stunt" separatly. I gave the video one very quick look see and I believe I also saw legitimate special weapon delivery training as well.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2008, 05:48:04 AM by Rich46yo »
"flying the aircraft of the Red Star"