My take on AcesHigh

[54Ed]

Can't resist.

Realism is one of those words that has several different meanings.  Some of you guys are talking past each other.

One meaning is Technical Realism.  This means that each plane performs as closely as possible to it's real-life model.  Gun dispersion, E retention, physics, everything.  

Another meaning is Tactical Realism.  This means that the planes are employed as they would have been in real life.  This gets into plane sets and mix, tactics, strategy, and the like.

As we all know, there are several on-line WWII prop sims out there.  Each strives for varying levels of accuracy in both Technical and Tactical realism.

FA, for example, tries for tactical realism, by forcing players to choose a country and then limiting their choices to that countries' planes.  But FA disregards technical accuracy, because the players there don't want to be bothered with pesky things like the laws of physics.

I've only played WB a few times, but it sounds like WB tries for both Technical and Tactical realism.

AH is the best sim I've tried for Technical Realism.  The flight model and the attention to detail in AH are just far superior to any other current attempt to model the physical behavior of WWII planes.  

However, AH has zero Tactical Realism, because there are no COUNTRIES!  Without countries, and the limits that imposes on plane sets, any discussion of realism in the context of tactics, plane mixes, etc is a waste of time and breath.  It's irrelevant how many CHOGs would be flying in a historical WWII battle, when you are flying a game where a P51 can wing for a FW190, or an Me109 can escort a B17.  

Now I personally don't advocate changing to a country arena.  I enjoy hopping from plane to plane too much.  But I accept that this makes historical accuracy impossible in the tactical sense.  However, I think most of us share a common desire to see technical realism maximized.  If AH ever wanders away from constantly striving for technical realism, I'll find another game.

[Jekyll]

 

Does fighting smart change if the player you are fighting is pulling til he pukes?

Umm well when fighting planes which had mechanical linkages to the control surfaces ..... yes, it does!  

[pzvg]

Hehe, get rid of the friggin' "AHHcons"
and we'll find out what's overmodelled,
Realism? you want realism? fine, set up a system that tells you where you're going today, and what you're doing. Then let the intel be hosed   Myself, I find the planes aren't the issue, the issue is there is no penalty for being stupid, or braver than any sane man,Will it change? not for the forseeable future, will folks continue to prolong the debate? Duh.
 Happy Holidays to all of ya foul-mouthed,evil tempered, reference-guide toting flying s.o.b.s,keep the shiny side up.
 

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pzvg- "5 years and I still can't shoot"

[-lazs-]

jekyl.. none of the things you have mentioned would bother me in the least.   Well, I don't want so much sun that it gives ya a headache like the first WB sun did.   Adding perk planes and calling it "realistic" does bother me.  I want as much parity as possible and I think the current plane set (including the nik and C Hog) has it.  Oh, can't most of those things be adjusted in a scenario arena anyway?

I think what we have here is that you want tactics/patience to be a skill and I want ACM  to be a skill.   Maybe there is some crossover but we both want the game weighted in one direction or the other.

Historicaly, tactics did weigh heavily but.... They didn't fly in an arena and they didn't have the stick hours or comfort of home while flying and they didn't do it for "fun".  If they did, they would probly use a whole lot more ACM.  Just like they did in mock dogfites with their buddies.

Personally, I have the patience of a crack addict.   If I don't engage something in 10 minutes or so I get bored and go do something fun.   Maybe your idea of fun is influenced by the small number of players in the arena when you fly?   Killing something with a perk plane or killing someone who is in the bathroom is no fun for me.  An acm filled dogfite is.

What I have said I would like is an area in the arena in the "canyon world" for early war planes..  Three uncapturable fields or resetable fields that the late birds can't  easily get to.   Twisty turny early war planes in canyons till ya puke... Get bored with that (or just wore out) and simply click on a late war field and relax a little.   Choice is a good thing.   Heck, you may never have to see me again jekyl.  

jekyl, you have chosen the part of air combat history that you like.... The sneaking up and blowing an unwary opponent away and then zooming off and I.... Have chosen the part I like... The melee... The huge, confusing, cotton mouth, whirlwind of a melee that strains SA and ACM to the limit.   Both are historically accurate but an arena that people pay to play in needs a lot more of the latter than the former to work IMO.
lazs

[K-KEN]

Agreed Yeager...
  I am a CHOG driver on occasion, a LANC driver on occasion, a gv driver-rarely, and a NIKI driver-mostly!  I also frequent most other planes, on occasion.  In a NIKI, I hate a YAK-especially a high one, most spits, a CHOG, a panzer, a FLAK, and the list goes on.  But isn't that why we pay the bucks to play here?  I am A SERIOUS Dweeb, but I pay for the priviledge to fly MY choice of plane.  I am really liking, the FW A5 of late.  BUT....I pay for that too.
So when folks like Vulcan and FEIxxxx talk trash, I feel an obligation to defend my right to fly here too.  So, bottom line, I am a dweeb.....an honest-fullfare-paying  dweeb.  Plane diversity is good.  Thank you HTC for allowing us - less than average folks, to enjoy this SIM too.  

K-KEN

 http://www.cutthroats.com/


 

[Jekyll]

Surprisingly enough lazs.. we aren't as far apart as you might believe.

So lets sort this out once and for all  

I have hopes that the perk system might at least promote the use of a wider range of aircraft than we see in the arena at the moment.

I actually want BOTH tactics and ACM to be rewarded skills    Some guys are strong on tactics, some on ACM.  At present, its the guys who are strong on ACM who hold all the cards IMHO.  I'd like to see a balance between the two ... the guys who are prepared to think before they dive in to a fight get rewarded for thinking ... in the same way as I'd like to see guys with good ACM skills be rewarded for developing those skills.

And actually lazs.. although I do my share of sneaking up and blowing away the unwary .. I much prefer the dogfight  

P.S.  I think the 'canyon world' idea is terrific.. so long as it was bounded by 50k mountains.  Imagine the carnage if a P51H or Bearcat managed to sneak inside.

Regards  

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=357th Pony Express=
Aces High Training Corps

[This message has been edited by Jekyll (edited 12-27-2000).]

[lazs]

Imagine the carnage that a Bearcat or 51H can wreak on the current plane set.  Ugly eh?  No one would be dumb enough to allow these planes in the same arena as our current plane set would they?  

I dissagree that the arena is weighted too heavily towards ACM... It is an arena and thinking before you engage is an advantage every time in the current arena.   To weigh it any other way would, IMO, mean that there would be less action.... Way less action.

I'm glad you like my "canyon world" area in idea as used in the current arena.  The only other options for early war planes are crappy... RPS has been tried and not really liked in other sims.   If you have a seperate arena (that's been tried also) one or the other is deserted...I suppose they could reverse perk em..... low points and ya fly a P39.... Allmost as idiotic as "perking" unbalancing planes.   Sheesh..... give me the early war "area" to hide in.

U wouldn't need many planes in the canyon world area to have fun.   25k mountains would make sure that late war planes didn't have enough fuel to fight plus..... I don't think they would do that hot in the canyons anyway.
lazs