The guns are right, the planes are fine ... BUT

[Jekyll]

It's time to model the pilot!

Take a look at this film.

Now I've selected a Spit 9, but it could just as easily been a Zeke, a P51 or a Fw190.  Unfortunately, films don't show blackouts and redouts, so I'll leave it to your imagination to work out just how long I was flying with either no blood in my brain, or all my blood in there.

But of course, the pilot suffers no ill effects at present - leading to a situation where the standard evasive is pull (or push) on the pole until you can't see anything... and keep doing it until your opponent gets bored and flies off.

Lets model incapacitation through prolonged blackout or redout.  Lets model pilot strength ... just how hard was it to roll a Spitfire at 400mph... and how long could a pilot keep doing it until his arms fell out of their sockets?

Air combat has 3 main components ... the plane, the guns, and the pilot.  At present, two out of three are modelled pretty well, but our 'uber-pilots' (instant recovery times, infinite strength, laser-ranging eyesight) make 1.04 LESS realistic IMHO, than any previous versions.

Thoughts?  Opinions?  Flames?


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C.O. Phoenix Squadron
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/phoenix
Aces High Training Corps

[Vermillion]

I couldn't agree more!

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure

[Westy]

 Yes you could Verm    And I could agree more too!
 Penalise the pull!

 -Westy

[Dinger]

yes Yes YES!
If you yank too much on the stick, you should go blind!

[Vermillion]

I thought it just made your palms hairy??  

Sorry couldn't resist hehehehhe

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure

[This message has been edited by Vermillion (edited 10-16-2000).]

[Zigrat]

fine but raise the limit. blacking out at 4.5g silly, 5.5 would be better, but there is no grey out in here so what to do about that i dunno.

[Wanker]

ROFL, y'all are cracking me up!  

[Stiglr]

Raise the G-limit first! As it is now, easy to moderate pullups are a valid defense, because you can't follow one without half your field of view greying out.

Then, model cumulative susceptibility.

[Hristo]

Great idea.  

[Otso]

Modeling pilot fatigue would be a great addition to the game. It would make people to break off fights earlier and to be more cautious in general. This would really add realism into the SIMULATION (game?).

But how to model fatigue? Blurred vision, slowed down view switching, what?

<puts his tongue in cheek>
Maybe you could build up your physical condition by jogging around the base or by doing some other exercises, or just by regular flying. Good physical condition is one thing that Finnish WWII aces thought was an important factor in their performance...

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Otso

[Jekyll]

Well I s'pose there's really 2 issues here.

1.  Pilot incapacitation through extended G pulling.  Perhaps model the blackout period to last longer for pilots who have continually pulled high G's that sortie.  Also be sure to disable ALL control inputs whilst in blackout and redout, together with autopilot features.

2.  Pilot fatigue.  Should be relatively simple (I hope).  AH already models the effects of stick forces at high airspeed.  Determine an average 'strength factor' for pilots, which can be diminished by exertion in moving the stick to and fro.  I believe the Spitfire had very light elevator forces, but very heavy rudder and aileron forces.  A Spit pilot in a high speed chase should therefore 'get tired' faster if he was using roling maneuvers rather than 'in plane' maneuvers.  Once you get too tired, you don't have the physical strength to deflect the stick or rudders to maximum values.

Now this should reward the smart pilot .. who doesn't believe in just diving in to a furball and pulling on the pole forever and a day.  It should also mean that a pilot victorious from a recent success had better watch his ass, in case another 'fresher' enemy con dives in to renew the fight.

[Fariz]

Main question is if it will improve a gameplay. When you are tired you can feel it, but how it can be shown in game? Shall a red "fatique" bar to be added to game and to make it look as a damn arcade? Also pilots fatuque is already modeled in the game, when I am tired I make more stupid moves than when I am in a good shape. So it is modeled by our nature already  

What I agree with is that blackouts G shall be raised, because if with the privious FM it was adequate, now, with more intensive maneuvers fight it is often annoying.

Fariz.

[Otso]

Lengthening the blackout period gradually is a good idea. You could also leave a kind of haze or fog that hampers your vision. The haze dissolves when you fly nice'n'easy for a while (3 mins game time?). You might also consider adding some kind of delay to plane's response to input from controls.

The feedback of the (physical) stress level should be very clear so that you can immediately know your status. Having a status bar somewhere on the screen would be a ridiculous idea, I agree.  

In a PC sim like AH you have only the visuals and sound effects for feedback. It is difficult to find good ways to simulate something like this 'naturally' with visual/aural cues. Maybe the blackout/redout is the only natural stress effect you can have in the game?

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Otso

[This message has been edited by Otso (edited 10-24-2000).]

[Hristo]

FAriz, the bar idea isn't that bad. IT is the only clue how tired you are in your virtual life  .

Or, OTOH, you try to fly with TM gear and feel the fatigue.

[iculus]

I think each AH subscriber should be subjected to a battery of tests to find his or her RL limits.  That would be sent to HTC, and set for the individual...

 
IC