B-52

[FTJR]

Just a quick question to anyone who might know, doesn't the '52 have any sort of stall warning/ stick shaker arrangement? Not that it would have prevented it. TIA

[jollyFE]

This is taught in just about every CRM class that I have been in for the past 12 years.  Dangerous attitudes behind the stick are just as deadly as bullets or missiles.  No body wants to be "that guy" to speak up about someone....but usually all it take is one person to step fwd and others soon follow.  I got to Fairchild a little bit after the accident and folks still had strong feelings.

[oakranger]

Well, i am sure a lot of people who are surrounded the situation have Strong feeling about it.  for one, people have die, people where court marshal, and a 100 million dollare plan going down by irresponsible pilot can bring a lot of emtions. 

[rabbidrabbit]

Well, I am sure a lot of people surrounding the situation have strong feelings.  People died, others were court marshaled as well as the loss of a 100 million dollar plane due to irresponsible piloting can provoke a lot of emotions. 

Fixed... or at least kinda cleaned up...

[oakranger]

Yea, i know

[Steve]

I'm probably mistaken but I think the pilot was the squadron commander and, as shown in the clip, he had been doing things like this for some time.

I'm trying to find where I read the write up on the crash and pilot.  I'll be back if I can find it.


(there's always wiki....)


wrongway

Link is already posted... the guy was an idiot

[Elfie]

Yeah I know. Thats why I mentioned the stupid "stunt" separatly. I gave the video one very quick look see and I believe I also saw legitimate special weapon delivery training as well.

There was a low level weapons delivery run, but it wasn't a special weapon, or a simulated special weapon either. I know exactly what the *special weapons* and *simulated special weapons* look like since I used to load them.

[Race]

      I doubt they could precision drop a "special" on a target that small. Far as I know the gravity bombs were unguided with retard parachutes. The impact radius is probly fairly large compared to a airshow fly zone.  Didnt they call that maunuever the "idiot loop"?

Race

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Here's a far funnyer mishap: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5-FNGuJxuo&NR=1

[Casca]

Another interesting aspect of this accident that points to systemic causal factors is the fact that there was a Class A mishap at the same airbase (Fairchild) in March of 1987 involving a KC 135 doing simulated low-level refueling type maneuvers with a Buff while practicing for yet another airshow.  I believe that a determination was made that wake turbulence was involved in the accident.  One interesting side light of the tanker accident, and I think I remember this right, was that one of the tanker aircrew arrived too late for the accident flight but was, nonetheless, killed on the ground while sitting in his car in the parking lot. 

[Casca]

To expand on this a little we are looking at an accident where it is clear the guy was an idiot.  In my safety philosophy, though, this conclusion is not a satisfactory explanation for a couple of reasons.  The first is that it allows us to dismiss the mishap as an aberration.  The second is that it does not contain an element of correctability.  If we approach it like that we have to conclude that the accident is unavoidable because as Ron White likes to point out: "You can't fix stupid."  Whenever I hear the words "pilot error" in connection with an accident I cringe.  There is no element of correctablilty in "pilot error".  In order to fix anything we need to know if it was because the pilot was not properly trained, or tired, or drunk etc.

So starting from the premise of "You can't fix stupid." we have to examine the command structure which allowed the situation to exist and for that pilot to flourish (as Tony Kern does in his excellent examination of the accident).  The fact that there was a similar accident at the same airfield under similar conditions 7 years prior to this one is relevant.

It is not unheard of for the military to release one politically correct report for public consumption and keep contradictory conclusions "in-house".  An excellent example is the Kara Hultgren accident.  Publically she was praised while the Navy's in-house assessment was critical of her.

[Elfie]

      I doubt they could precision drop a "special" on a target that small. Far as I know the gravity bombs were unguided with retard parachutes. The impact radius is probly fairly large compared to a airshow fly zone.  Didnt they call that maunuever the "idiot loop"?

Race

You don't need a whole lot of precision with a *special* weapon.

[Race]

LOL....no close is good enough for all but a smallest tactical weapons. 

Race

[Sabre]

This incident was actually a case study in poor leadership at Air Force Squadron Officers' School when I attended in '96.