Author Topic: MWA as bad as any other arena now:(  (Read 9205 times)

Offline Guppy35

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 20385
Re: MWA as bad as any other arena now:(
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2008, 01:28:17 AM »

Well, I guess I'm just trying to say that you guys who really long for the days of the more pure fights really need to take the responsibility upon yourselves.  Quit simply blaming the squeekers or whatever.  Any downgrade of playstyle originated on YOUR watch.  Start teaching the skills more openly, there really is enough people interested in the ACM to make a difference in the long run, if you choose to help us.

/ramble off

I can only speak for the folks I know but just about every last one of them has helped anyone who has asked for help.  The whole idea behind SAPP was to get the 38 guys together and share the wealth.  Anyone that has asked about the 38 I think has gotten someone to either teach him or wing with him.   Because I'm a 38 junkie I can speak to that.  I'm sure that there are guys flying other birds that do the same.

The trainers seem to have times where they are in the TA.  Widewing I know offers help all the time.  Look at the guys on the BBS offering.  Ask in the MA's.  What's the worst that can happen.  They say no?  

Speaking for myself, I'd be a lousy teacher as it's all instinct and generally poor instinct at that. Folks start talking about this move or that, and I'm lost faster then my 38G loses parts.  I learn by diving in and having at it.  Some things work, some don't.  Taking a chance in the fight can often be the best teacher.  That's the joy of not really dying.

I guess I'm defending the vets, because I see many of us who have put a lot of time and energy into trying to make the game better.  I'm not sure what else you want us to do?  
Dan/CorkyJr
8th FS "Headhunters

Offline iTunes

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 472
Re: MWA as bad as any other arena now:(
« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2008, 01:30:20 AM »
Think what I'll do from now on is announce on 200 etc if anyone is loooking for a fight, that way some more folks might want to turn up and we could have a little corner without the gangers and hoers etc, I honestly don't know how else to come accross some like minded people in the arenas. Had a great fight with Cactus and that was a one off as we just happened to meet, so if anyone has any ideas on how to get some fights  going and make AH fun again then I'm all ears.
The Class Acts.
JG54 Grunherz
iTunes- UK's finest killer of ack huggers and runners, mixing business with girls and thrills.
JG54/ Manchester United- Nobody likes us-we don't care... Goes by the name of Wayne rooney http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EW-47c_8J4c

Offline Delirium

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7276
Re: MWA as bad as any other arena now:(
« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2008, 01:31:33 AM »
I guess my question is, how does your group choose players to train?  How many have you trained in the past 6 months?  Are you really trying to propagate a community interested in the mechanics of air combat?

I've taken quite a few people to the DA/TA and worked with them and I've taken on several students in the past.  Heck, after a squad furball in the DA I helped 2 new guys and that was just this past Sunday. All people have to do is ask, however I will only take one person on at a time.

Have I dropped the ball? Yes, I had taken Serenity under my wing but my life suddenly got difficult and busy (new wife, new house, new child) and I had to abandon him. I feel guilty about it and I feel even more guilty because by the time I realized I dropped the ball I hadn't even told him.

I feel no matter what I do it is a drop in the bucket and it really doesn't make a difference. More so when I see ex students of mine back in Spit16s or Nikis, it is frustrating. I can only imagine the really good sticks (which I am not) spending lots of their free time only to be ho'd by one of their former students.



Delirium
80th "Headhunters"
Retired AH Trainer (but still teach the P38 selectively)

I found an air leak in my inflatable sheep and plugged the hole! Honest!

Offline Guppy35

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 20385
Re: MWA as bad as any other arena now:(
« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2008, 01:34:30 AM »
Really?  I don't think so.  From my perspective the whole SAPP thing is more a close knit club thing that excludes more then includes.  For god's sake, just take a close look at how SAPP folks participate in the in game and BBS community.  

If you can't see the elitist over tones, I don't know what I can say...

Honestly, you are one of the most positive posters in the BBS...  I actually miss the "in character" Corky Jr stories...

I guess my question is, how does your group choose players to train?  How many have you trained in the past 6 months?  Are you really trying to propagate a community interested in the mechanics of air combat?


If that's the perception you've gotten of SAPP, then my posting isn't very good.  The entire "secret' part was the joke.  It's no secret.  Anyone that's asked has been more then welcome to fly.  Short of begging guys to get into 38s, I'm not sure what else to do with it.

It isn't about choosing anyone.  I'm not a recruiter. But trying to present it as about fun, and poking fun at ourselves and our augering 38s is meant to show that this isn't that serious.  I wish I could tell you how many PMs I've gotten regarding SAPP.  And that's just me, not everyone.  I've never turned anyone down if they are wanting to learn the 38.  Not once, and there have been many.

38 drivers are the un-elite :)
Dan/CorkyJr
8th FS "Headhunters

Offline 1pLUs44

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3332
Re: MWA as bad as any other arena now:(
« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2008, 01:34:35 AM »
idk...  a lot of people like to compare their fights to 1 v 1s. I personally like 2 v 1s better. They last longer and I learn more from it.

<snip>
(which I am not) spending lots of their free time only to be ho'd by one of their former students.





lies! :P
No one knows what the future may bring.

Offline Delirium

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7276
Re: MWA as bad as any other arena now:(
« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2008, 01:36:57 AM »
From my perspective the whole SAPP thing is more a close knit club thing that excludes more then includes.  For god's sake, just take a close look at how SAPP folks participate in the in game and BBS community.  

SAPP is almost always on channel 138, come and say hello. On an active night, we'll have 80th, 475th, 39th, Muppets, (to a lesser extent) JG11, and a few guests on. SAPP has never denied admission to anyone and only one member was ever kicked and that was a short term solution to someone invoking the name of the club in heated tones over 200.

Many of our SAPP members have moved onto flying other aircraft but remain on the roster. It is more of a fellowship than some elite society. We don't take it seriously enough to be elite about anything...

Edit:

The entire "secret' part was the joke.  It's no secret.  Anyone that's asked has been more then welcome to fly. 

Corky beat me to it...
« Last Edit: December 05, 2008, 01:39:08 AM by Delirium »
Delirium
80th "Headhunters"
Retired AH Trainer (but still teach the P38 selectively)

I found an air leak in my inflatable sheep and plugged the hole! Honest!

Offline PFactorDave

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4334
Re: MWA as bad as any other arena now:(
« Reply #21 on: December 05, 2008, 01:40:04 AM »


I do wish you would be more understanding in regards to the Trainers on AH. They are stretched thin, are all volunteers, and are really trying.

Oh I hope I didn't cast an aspersion on the AH Trainers.  That really wasn't my intent.  But to read these BBS posts, the answer to EVRY NOOBS problems is the Trainers, either by reading or contacting the trainers.

It simply isn't true.  In fact, it's an enormous load of horse hockey.

Careful reading will take you so far.  More so if you have some previous aviation background (where I find myself).  Time with AH trainers is invaluable.  I got quite a bit from my time with Murdr, but even so, much of the time was wasted with concepts which I already understood.

In game, I joined a squad who...

1) I had been in contact with in game, ie joined missions etc.
2) Seemed to care how I performed.  Falcon23 was the first person to actually explain ANYTHING about the capture mechanics to me in game.  It really meant a lot to me when he took the time to PM back and forth about what was needed from a mision stand point.
3) Accepted me, even though I clearly didnt know much.  The community aspect was key to me at this juncture...
I was looking for friends to play the game with.

More recently, I am seeing RT starting to focus more on the ACM aspects of the game, and especially wingman tactics...  I'm absolutely pumped by this....

That said, I wonder what is happening to players in the last 6 months who didn't hook up with established squads?  Have they mostly quit the game already?  I'll bet they have...

Maybe HTC should put more effort into training...  It might cost a few dollars to do it right, but I'll bet it can pay itself off multi-fold.

1st Lieutenant
FSO Liaison Officer
Rolling Thunder

Offline PFactorDave

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4334
Re: MWA as bad as any other arena now:(
« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2008, 01:53:09 AM »
If that's the perception you've gotten of SAPP, then my posting isn't very good.  The entire "secret' part was the joke.  

It is the perception that you generate.  I've been around for awhile, not long enough to be one of the leet BBS guys, but I'm really not an online flight sim noob...  I've always known that the SAPP conspiracy was a joke, but I also have never known anyone who has been trained by SAPP from basic skills since I have started playing...   I'm fairly certain that you don't intend it to be the way that it is, but you know what, it is what it is....

I just wish the major squadrons would REALLY take an interest in teaching ACM and tactics...  Imagine if all the big squads would start to teach such things...  I'm sure that the game play would improve... 

1st Lieutenant
FSO Liaison Officer
Rolling Thunder

Offline iTunes

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 472
Re: MWA as bad as any other arena now:(
« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2008, 01:58:45 AM »
I'm still waiting for someone to come up with an Idea of getting good fights going again, Not too concerned about how certain squads are allegedlly perceived,But more in trying to make AH fun again, How about getting rid of the scoring system? Or maybe get rid of the name in lights after landing?
I don't know about anyone else, but it's the same standard format that I have the misfortune to find.
1. find a con coalt or higher
2. Con tries a HO
3 HO fails
4. con dives to ack or to friendlies
5. Con also extends to friendlies then reverses when he has numbers.
6. gangs of 16's or other low eny crates pouncing one guy on his own, usually finished of by a HO
7. picked off by a perk ride or a low eny crate while already engaged in somewhat of a 1v1.
8. Usually after a few hours you finally meet someone similar and have a good fight.
9. Never see the person again
10. Back to #1
The Class Acts.
JG54 Grunherz
iTunes- UK's finest killer of ack huggers and runners, mixing business with girls and thrills.
JG54/ Manchester United- Nobody likes us-we don't care... Goes by the name of Wayne rooney http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EW-47c_8J4c

Offline PFactorDave

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4334
Re: MWA as bad as any other arena now:(
« Reply #24 on: December 05, 2008, 02:09:10 AM »
SAPP is almost always on channel 138, come and say hello. On an active night, we'll have 80th, 475th, 39th, Muppets, (to a lesser extent) JG11, and a few guests on. SAPP has never denied admission to anyone and only one member was ever kicked and that was a short term solution to someone invoking the name of the club in heated tones over 200.


First time I have EVER heard such an invite on this BBS (you might consider my first post date and post count when weighing what I am saying)...

I might suggest that the ideals that you aspire to have long been lost in reality.  I can say that I have been around AH for roughly 9 months or so and have NEVER EVER felt welcome on your channel, and can't even say that I have felt welcome when contacting the Trainers.

Honestly, if you want to change the way the game is being played, you more experienced folks are key...  Quit whining and start teaching.

1st Lieutenant
FSO Liaison Officer
Rolling Thunder

Offline Delirium

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7276
Re: MWA as bad as any other arena now:(
« Reply #25 on: December 05, 2008, 02:15:52 AM »
Delirium
80th "Headhunters"
Retired AH Trainer (but still teach the P38 selectively)

I found an air leak in my inflatable sheep and plugged the hole! Honest!

Offline PFactorDave

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4334
Re: MWA as bad as any other arena now:(
« Reply #26 on: December 05, 2008, 02:19:04 AM »
I can only speak for the folks I know but just about every last one of them has helped anyone who has asked for help.  

That really isn't good enough if SAPP members are going to complain about the level of gameplay or about the ACM habits of other players....  Perhaps you should reevalute the folks that you know in an effort to influence the game play...

I'm not saying that your friends havent been any help, but I think that I can pretty confidently say that I (in the last 9 months) haven't seen ANY group that is a significant help to the NEW community...  Sorry, but that includes the Trainers...

1st Lieutenant
FSO Liaison Officer
Rolling Thunder

Offline Guppy35

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 20385
Re: MWA as bad as any other arena now:(
« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2008, 02:22:39 AM »
First time I have EVER heard such an invite on this BBS (you might consider my first post date and post count when weighing what I am saying)...

I might suggest that the ideals that you aspire to have long been lost in reality.  I can say that I have been around AH for roughly 9 months or so and have NEVER EVER felt welcome on your channel, and can't even say that I have felt welcome when contacting the Trainers.

Honestly, if you want to change the way the game is being played, you more experienced folks are key...  Quit whining and start teaching.

I don't ever recall you asking.  I don't ever recall a PM, you showing up on channel etc. 

So quit blaming us, and we'll look forward to you showing up in a 38 on 138
Dan/CorkyJr
8th FS "Headhunters

Offline PFactorDave

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4334
Re: MWA as bad as any other arena now:(
« Reply #28 on: December 05, 2008, 02:27:33 AM »
Pfactor, check out this thread.

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,241769.0.html

 I read that thread when it was originally posted, I seem to recall it degenrating into a "you suck" thread pretty darn quickly...  What's a new guy to think?  Thread starts with an offer to help, then within a few posts it is nothing more then character assasination...

That thread was a solution for nothing...

Don't get me wrong, I really respect the guys who are trying, but I really don't think an adequate effort has been put forth by HTC to train the community.  Get me going on this subject at your own risk....   :)

1st Lieutenant
FSO Liaison Officer
Rolling Thunder

Offline Guppy35

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 20385
Re: MWA as bad as any other arena now:(
« Reply #29 on: December 05, 2008, 02:31:43 AM »
OK Dave, it appears we'll have to start with you :)

check your PMs

I`hope you like 38s
Dan/CorkyJr
8th FS "Headhunters