MWA as bad as any other arena now:(

[PFactorDave]

OK Dave, it appears we'll have to start with you

check your PMs

I`hope you like 38s

Check your PMs, I think you have missed the point.  So many people complain about how the game is played by new guys, but then expect the new guys to seek out the "proper" training without any real guidance on what the "right" training is...  I'll look you guys up when I want to learn 38s, I'm sure it'll happen eventually.  Until then, I suggest you advertise a bit more, it's a shame that it took my plaintive post to get an invite.  You should police your members a bit more as well, there are some wearing your SAPP badge who actively discourage new players.

[gpwurzel]

FWIW (and bear in mind this is only my opinion/experience) - I've been welcomed on 138 a couple of times - I'll admit I'm one of the worst (if not the worst) flyers in game, my shooting is terrible most nights etc etc.

I've flown with Silat a couple of times, with woozer, pawz and others all on 138 and had a right laugh every single time. There are sticks in the 38 that make me dizzy trying to fight them, yet I've not been given hard times or taunts or anything - only encouragement.

Whilst there are things that the Vets can improve ingame, to put the emphasis on them, or say that the trainers make you feel anything but welcome, is (again, imo) incorrect.

Obviously, we all have different perspectives and experiences - helping the newer players along though should be for all of us to do (even me). Where we draw the line at helping should depend on individual skills, and individual experiences etc - even I can tell someone how to fire secondary weapons, drop landing gear etc - and all without resorting to alt f4 jokes.

ymmv,


<S>

Wurzel

[uptown]

  S.A.P.P. hijacked the thread. The true 38 sticks in this game are a different breed of fellows in the game. I can't think of one that has showed poor sportsmanship, win or lose. As a collective group they are by far the best sticks in the game, in skill, respect and self discipline. Enough about that.

As for snaphook, he hasn't seemed happy about the game for awhile now, judging from his posts in the last couple of tours. I guess he's having problems finding a good 1vs1? He never explained in the OP except to say he was tired of "tardlets".The game will always have it's share of tardlets, as I'm sure even AW had it's share.

I never looked at MW to be that good of a arena anyhow. To me it's just another milking arena. And if you disrupt that you'll find yourself fighting a whole squad alone. For the most part the MW and EW theaters are populated by fellas that want a single digit ranking with as little effort as possible.

This is why i suggest the AvA arena. No point mungers in there from what I could see. Hell, I was in a fight with 2 109s and one broke off so it'd be a 1v1(ty Stodd ). You won't find that happen in EW,MW or LW.
IMO the terrains are much better,plane sets are what they should be and the level of respect and sportsmanship was outstanding. It's really a shame that more of the old AW types don't go in there more. I even joined a 38 squad in AvA but everytime I'd go there, there wasn't but a handful of people online. It's a wonderful arena going to waste for the most part.

[RTHolmes]

I think its a fair point about training. Its hardly surprising that a noob in the MA asking "how do I turn the engine on?" on country channel is met with "go to the TA", "RTFM" or Alt-F4. with 100+ people on a side, country ch really needs to be used for strategic/tactical stuff (plus banter ofc ). This means that the trainers in the TA are having to teach people stuff which they really should be working out for themselves (by RTFM and offline practise) which in turn means that they dont have time to teach ACM.

Introducing Basic Training would go along way to reducing the load on the trainers so they can concentrate on teaching more advanced stuff. Specifically an offline basic training area with a course that has to be passed to play online. It doesn't have to be as stringent as Americas Army, just make sure that new players can take off, climb to 10k, shoot some drones and land again succesfully. It might look like a barrier to entry, but I suspect alot more of the 2-weekers would go on to subscribe if they at least start their trial being able to fly a basic sortie, rather than spending 2 weeks augering, pressing buttons randomly and ground looping across the field.

just a thought

[Simaril]

And back to the "trainers aren't doing enough" theme -- Yeah, its horse hockey.

Biggest reason people don't get training is that most don't really want it. Even though I tell myself I want to be a student of the fight, in reality by the time I log on the LAST thing I want to do is put in some more grunt work. Most guys don't even go as far as I pretend to do with learning the art -- they just want to dive in and blow things up. (Basing that opinion on the general lack of interest I've encountered in sharing what little I've learned.)

If the demand was there, and if it made a difference, I have no doubt that HT would increase the number of trainer slots in a heartbeat. After all, he cares about this game even more than we do. Unfortunately, don't think it would make a dent in massed horde behavior.

[mensa180]

What I've been wondering this whole time is where you got SAPP from?  SAPP is not the squad Dan was talking about, he was talking about the 80th.  

[coola4me]

What a joke, when the MWA reaches a point that its tardlets in bunches its time to evaluate where the game is going. My 90 day clock is on, fas as I can see we're reaching the point that its devolved to a total waste of time.

I'm Just curious what was the problem you encountered in MW? My squad flies MW primarily not for the so called milkrunning as Uptown so lightly put it, we fight there for the fight which sadly i must say has been short as of late, but i think it may just be a passing state hopefully! When the arena split MW was full of the same mentality as LW was but that did change over the course of a few months.It seems we are in that viscous cycle again, it should come around again! I'm not here to convince you otherwise because it sounds as if your mind is made up (i hope it isn't), but there is more than you think of players that are intrested in the fight not just the score! Look me up next time your in MW ill give it a go for a 1v1 i sux so dint expect the fight to last long  . Ill be in the red tailed KI-61 in game name "coola"!

[dedalos]

After I took my break I told myself I would find a little corner of AH to enjoy and keep my mouth shut.

Well, all I found was an arena increasingly loaded with sticks that have one eye on the gunsight and the other on the score card. The newest crop of vets are those that can land multiple kills over and over again without regard of how they are obtained. Gone are the vets that would happily dive into a mess of enemy planes and still <salute> those that ganged them to death.

I'm definitely not as gracious as the latter type, but I'm closer to that than a score monkey.

So Del, care to recap our last engagements in the MWA?

[humble]

Let try and clarify my post from last night a bit....

While all of us have our moments and none are immune to throwing rocks at our proverbial glass house my comments are based on flying the MWA a lot over the last few months. The specific incident that triggered the post is basically identical to 100 or more that went before it. I logged in as rook (was lowest number last time) and as is usual there was no balanced rook fight. They were all lumped together ganging one field while the opposing sides each in turn ganged a different rook base. So i'm either 10 on zip or 1 on the dar bar. I hate flying knight in the MWA so I went bish and found a base (A19) with a single dar bar. I upped an SBD and went looking for a fight. Thr Darbar grew and I finally found a higher 110, p-38 and p-51. The pony dropped on in and the 110 and 38 stayed up. The pony driver was actually pretty decent, he got a couple of licks in that he probably shouldnt have (on my 2nd or 3rd day of trackIR use so I lose guys to often still) but was a fun fight that devolved to a stall fight on the deck with me forcing him to extend and regroup 4-5 times. Now on the last after staying out the entire time the 38 (oldman22) drops in and picks me. From my perspective the pony called the others off and then asked him in once he saw he was gonna get killed if he continued the 1 on 1.

Anyone who's ever flown with me knows that I always call any squaddies (or friendlies) off of a true 1 on 1....especially if i'm losing so that type of behavior is repugnant to me. I upped an SBD again to give them another crack and this time the 3 just ganged me again with no pretense. So I left them to them selfs.

The truth is that there are a lot of "old school" guys who will help anyone who asks, the SAPP guys are not only great sticks but great people as well. As for me I help anyone who asks and post various stuff in the TA portion of the BBS from time to time. I'm way beyond caring about "score" and IMO this actually goes beyond this increasingly stupid game. This is an indicator of the constant erosion of character in our society at large IMO...I'm finding more and more I simply don't like the majority of people who play this game any more.

[CAP1]

That would make us a lil bit more like WarBirds though Guppy. I would like to implement what they had in AW which made it nearly impossible to HO...





It's a phase, it'll go back to normal at some point.

i had suggested this before, and seen others also. everyone retorts with something like "look where AW is now", which is stupid.

 if there were a uumm.....say.......10 degree cone off the nose of our a/c, that'd be enough to prevent these ho'ers. it'd force em to learn maneuvering, as they'd quickly learn that ho'ing just doesn't work.

 now, on the other hand, i've been blessed with some good fights in MW last month. this is mostly due to the influx of some better sticks from the LW arenas. you guys all know who i'm talking about. apparently, some of the slugs are comming too.
 that's pretty simple to fix though. we can police ourselves in there. run film. someone ho's, call em out on it in open channel. inevitably, they;ll deny it. now it can be posted here. the types that do that poo poo, are the same types that will actually let themselves be embarrassed by someone they've never met over the net.

 the other option.......you engage....they ho.....regardless of the outcome, you'll see their name. note who it is, and go fight somewhere else. eventually they;ll go away. orrrr......you've now pegged a hotard.....grab a couple squaddies, and make his life miserable. hunt him down. if he goes to another area of the map, get reports from other friendlies, as to his location, and you and your squaddies go there, and continue the witch hunt. he;ll go away when he realizes he can't get away wtih his poopoo anymore.

 this should leave just those of us that like the fight behind. it was seeming soo good, that you gus were comming in here......the 80th guys, akak, snaphook, hell, i was getting good fights with jeager one night....even though he kept killin me.  

<<S>>

[CAP1]

Really?  I don't think so.  From my perspective the whole SAPP thing is more a close knit club thing that excludes more then includes.  For god's sake, just take a close look at how SAPP folks participate in the in game and BBS community.  

If you can't see the elitist over tones, I don't know what I can say...

Honestly, you are one of the most positive posters in the BBS...  I actually miss the "in character" Corky Jr stories...

I guess my question is, how does your group choose players to train?  How many have you trained in the past 6 months?  Are you really trying to propagate a community interested in the mechanics of air combat?

have you ever flown with or against any of the sapp guys? i've done both. every one of them(that i've met ingame) are GREAT people. they're excellent wingies, and they're even better opponents.
 they DO NOT have any elitist attitudes. i fought against soulss, who actually typed tips to me DURING our fight. i fought against shuffler, who did the same....only, after i died. i fought against snaphook, who spent close to 45 minutes on 200 explaining what i did wrong, and what i could/should have done differently. crims stopped what he was doing, switched countries, and we went off to the edge of the map, and he worked with me. i fought akak, lost, and he also explained what i had done wrong.
 i don;t see any of this as elitist. these are the kinds of guys that are fun to fight.

your last questions.......yes, i truely believe they are trying to propagate good fighting skills. i'm not sure, that i can or should say this, but......i don't know what their criteria is for SAPP, but they did bring me into their ranks. it seems that if you show a good interest in 2 things. 1) the mighty P38. 2)a strong desire to FIGHT.

 one final thought.......you ever noticed when you see films posted, you almost always see or hear some sort of smack talk about someone involved? well, soulss sent me the film of some of our fights.......on said film, i hear him call out a p38, and an f6f( was the 38). shuffler responded with a comment that "the 38 is probably cap...he won't ho ya, he seems like a good guy", and a "i don't know who the f6f is".

 so...how is any of this elitist? THEY are the ones i've been referencing in my posts about the good fighters comming to mw. 

<<S>>

[Oldman731]

They were all lumped together ganging one field while the opposing sides each in turn ganged a different rook base.

Over time, this seems to be the result in any arena that offers a map reset.  When I go around to see how the other folks live, I even notice this in the EW arena.

- oldman

[CAP1]

It is the perception that you generate.  I've been around for awhile, not long enough to be one of the leet BBS guys, but I'm really not an online flight sim noob...  I've always known that the SAPP conspiracy was a joke, but I also have never known anyone who has been trained by SAPP from basic skills since I have started playing...   I'm fairly certain that you don't intend it to be the way that it is, but you know what, it is what it is....

I just wish the major squadrons would REALLY take an interest in teaching ACM and tactics...  Imagine if all the big squads would start to teach such things...  I'm sure that the game play would improve... 

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< is recieving help from a SAPP member almost every time logged in lately.  does that count?

[CAP1]

I never looked at MW to be that good of a arena anyhow. To me it's just another milking arena. And if you disrupt that you'll find yourself fighting a whole squad alone. For the most part the MW and EW theaters are populated by fellas that want a single digit ranking with as little effort as possible.

i fly mw excllusivley. i can't imagine you've spent any serious time in there if this is your impression.

it's the same as the lw's, but on a smalle rscale, with better sportsmanship.
 there;s always gonna be landgrabbers.

 the good fights are(used to be?) in mw.

[Delirium]

So Del, care to recap our last engagements in the MWA?

It wasn't in the MW, it was in LW. You were slightly lower (1-2k) in a La7 and after the merge your forced me out front and you got me.

Like I said, I'm not always gracious but I don't care about my score either.

My ego doesn't need any fluffing.