Taking on the Spit 16 and the Spt 8- How to defeat them

[Phil]

You very much underestimate the Spit 1.   I run into some of your types from to time.   Two seconds after I pull the trigger, you're in the tower wondering "What just happened?"   

Nope !
Spitfire 1 is a good turner and will surprise many enemy pilots
As for speed, its a bit slow...
As for gun platform, you will tickle the enemy plane  But with a steady 3-4 sec burst with the right convergence, you might make him go down !

What is my "type" may I ask ? 

Ohhh I've seen Spit 1's come after me and I salute them !
I'm often in a Spit9 and win the fights vs Spit1 BUT he was ONE HELL OF A GOOD STICK b'cause he gave me a hard time !!!!

Every time I meet a pilot with Spit1, It can be two things !
1) New player that doesn't know the difference between the planes
2) Darn good stick and he's about to fill me with lead before I finally shoot him down !

Believe me ! I don't drop my guard anymore !!

Masherbrum what is your GAME ID ?

Phil / OPP7755

[Yenny]

I fly K4 almost exclusively...and I do not keep it fast.  I chop throttle to force the bad guy to overshoot more often than not and try to suck them into a rolling scissors.  They should only have to fly in front of your guns once...maybe twice. Keeping it fast, you are losing out on what the plane is truly capable of. 

That's what I do, and usually it's pretty damn fun to see the spit break it off and run for it once you get on its tail.

[mechanic]

http://www.freeroleentertainment.com/dudtaters.ahf - short film K4 reversal on spit16 and ki84.

learn to reverse attacking cons and every now and then you get a lucky snapshot off. it's just so much more rewarding than learning the Boom and Zoom methods of flying the k4.


Spits? like chew toys for a mossy lots of dead spits here, nothing speacial though just a random DA furball.

http://www.freeroleentertainment.com/killingtime.ahf - ah film




edit: and here is another one i just found from a while ago. end with a good fight mossy vs spit16. how the spit was beaten is quite obvious but can answer questions if you want. hope this helps. S!


http://www.freeroleentertainment.com/mossspixt.ahf   - film short mossy vs spit16

[Anaxogoras]

Woah, it's the infamous batfink overshoot!   Ever since I saw those films I've been looking for those opportunities and have gotten lucky a few times.  That said, the OP is fairly new to online air-combat (IIRC, right iTunes?), and so I think it's worth pointing out that getting the 109K slow to duke it out with Spit16s is many, many more steps further down the path to tater-enlightenment.   I should have made that more clear in my original response: learning how to reliably rope, placing well-timed snap shots on a turning bandit, and improving SA all have to come first.

[pervert]

Hey guys 
Been tolling around in the 109 K4 for a little while now and I seem to be able to handle most plane types, or in other words I can give them a good fight. But the 2 Spit models that I mentioned above give me the biggest headache, I can manage my E kind of ok but that doesn't really save me, All I do now is try and stay as fast as I can and hopefully get a snaphot or two in, Anyone got any hints or tips they could share?

A k4 can turn with a spit its turning circle is larger but if its faster in the turn you can get guns on them every revolution or so. This also depends on the spit doing what the majority of spits do ie yank the stick back as hard as they can and burn a lot of e in the turn.

[beau32]

This is from Agent360.

Ahhhhh the 109k4 - Sort of like a biker chic and a refined beautiful woman put together.

The k4 does not turn very good compared to other "turny" planes. The plane is a wild beast at heart. It must be tamed. But once you come to an understanding it will out turn almost every plane in this game excepting the zeek.

First - the k4 is a stall fighter. That is where it excels. Forget the B&Z. Thats for wussies. If you want to make the other guy go " how the hell did he do that" then you must learn stall fighting. Stall fighting drivers are the "samari warriors" of this game.

The first thing to learn is throttle control. This is the first secret. The throttle must be constantly worked. It is rare that I hold the same throttle setting for more than 3 seconds while actively engaged with a bandit. The reason is simple - TORK.

To turn left pop wep and full left rudder.
To turn right throttle off full right rudder.
While flying strait jam the throttle on and foff and you can rock your plane back and forth with no other input. The tork on this plane is incredible and can be used to great advantage.
For example while in a flat scissor you will be at say 75 or even 50% throttle. To break left you: Jam the throttle...and I mean slaaammmm it forward and at the same time hit wep.
Now u want to break right: Slammm it off and take wep off at same time.
You will of course use full rudder at the same time with each turn.

While in the verticle on a bandits six who is desperatly trying to hammer you: follow him up with wep. As he stall turns at top you will slam throttle off pop 1 notch of flaps, full right rudder and follow him around into the dive. Keep throttle off. As he flattens out you will pull 3 notches of flaps and slam the throttle on with wep. You will repeat this over and over until u get close enough for a shot.

This brings us to the next secret - Flaps
You must learn to use flaps from all 4 nothces to none. For example once you have caught that pesky spit on the deck he will of course go into a flat turn hoping to out turn you. As the break turns starts and he begins to tighten it you will back off the throttle to reduce speed below 200 and pop all 4 notches of flaps as fast as you can. Then go to full throttle with wep on. Tred lightly on top rudder to keep ur nose from dropping. The k4 has so much power it can simply muscle its way in a turn with all the flaps out and some rudder without loosing too much speed. Attempt to make the turn slightly nose high. As you turn u can gain a few deg of angles if you can stay just above him in the turn. As this continues he will attempt to keep his speed up by dropping his nose in the turn which is exactly what you want. The ground will stop him eventually and he will have to straiten his turn. It is at this point where you will close for the shot.

Now if he is smart he will try to go verticle with is last bit of E. If you see his nose come up you will swing to the "left" of his plane ( we are in a left turn here) go flat real in 2 notches and you will then go strait up. Once verticle you will completly roll over and pop out all the flaps again. Come strait down and gun his brains out.

In any fight attempt to make the bandit "fly circles around you". This makes him think he is winning when in fact he is being set up for a snap shot. Your shot will come at the top....always!!! at the top. 30mils drop like rocks and it is near impossible to make any kind of shot while pulling G's. At the top when he make the turn you will slam throttle off and roll right poping flaps. It is hear that you can take an unloaded (0 g's) shot and let him fly into the rounds. This kind of shot cost you nothing because if you miss you are already turning down and simply follow him. Do not attempt to shoot while following him down. Just wait until he zooms again. If you do this correctly you get unlimited shots at him every time he turns at the top.

Do not criple your self by pulling hard to make an impossible g loaded shot. This will give him angles and if it is a turny plane he will be on your six in one turn.

About the climb rate: K4 has max climb at 0 to 5000. With 5k being its max climb. However most other planes will hold E longer than you can. Do not make the mistake of thinking you can "out climb" every plane because you cant. You can however as I say it "out E them" once you get them slow. That is the goal.

ALWAYS - I repeat - ALWAYS use the verticle to make any turn. A verticle turn will always gain angles over a flat turn. Once you get them slow take that baby strait up and hold it strait up untill it falls out of the sky. There is NO PLANE in this game that can hang with the k4 in the 90 deg verticle at less than 200mph. At first you will think you are not going to make it going vert and turn too soon. You must learn how to maintain control and squeeze every single ounce of energy out of the verticle climb. After some practice you will be just amazed at how you can go strait up. In fact you can get atleast 3k off the deck in a strait vert climb if you have about 150 to 180 mph to start with.

The k4 can gain E at will. Do not be afraid on loosing E. If you feel tht you are loosing put the nose down, full wep. All you need is 200 mph and you can go up atleast 3k.

Gunnery - Set the 30 mils at 200. Set the mg's at 400. Use the mg's to ping the hell out of them before u get into tater range. Pinging them will make them feel vulneralbe and they will often panic and make a turn which is just what you want. You will also get pilot wounds and engine hits.

TAKE THE SHOT. Even if you are 400 out. If you see them turn and you get a nice profile at 400 or even 600 out just drop ur nose and shoot. Lead A LOT. Like about 1.5 inches on your monitor from the target to your gun sight. You will be amazed at how many times you actually hit them like this.

Shoot 2 or 3 tators at a time. NO MORE. It only takes 1 tator to make a kill.

Close to almost ramming distance before u fire if possible. If its a tail chase and you have them dont waste rounds on a stick stirrer or a jerky scissor. They are panicking and doing anything to get away. Simply cut your throttle enough to prevent over shoot and close....close...close. When you are about to ram FIRE. They will blow up and you just fly right through the fire ball.

We have covered throttle, flaps, tork, the circle, and some gunnery. This has been only a basic introduction.

Unfortunatly, I have kept a few of the "real secrets" to myself. HEHEHE. These are closely kept and privy to a select few of "jedi apprentices". I will pass them on eventually.

Good luck.

Agent360

[mechanic]

Woah, it's the infamous batfink overshoot!   Ever since I saw those films I've been looking for those opportunities and have gotten lucky a few times.  That said, the OP is fairly new to online air-combat (IIRC, right iTunes?), and so I think it's worth pointing out that getting the 109K slow to duke it out with Spit16s is many, many more steps further down the path to tater-enlightenment.   I should have made that more clear in my original response: learning how to reliably rope, placing well-timed snap shots on a turning bandit, and improving SA all have to come first.

in this instance i disagree. fighting spit16s is never fun in the vertical unless you start with a big enough advantage. Just because itis easier to learn something doesnt make it the most valuable to learn first. Defending a BnZ attack is about having no other option but to fight, and that is a situation we all will get into. better to start learning for situations you cannot avoid long before situation you choose to be in or not. Jut my view.

S!

[Bosco123]

I heard recently how to beat spit8's by stalling them out, with any plane. What you do is, you pull them into a roll climb and it stalls them out sooner than they would with a stright climb.

[mechanic]

unless they happen to be kazaa and easily climb up with you to pop you at the top whilst watching TV over his shoulder. The only way to beat spit16 without starting with advantage is to trick them. The last thing they expect is a turn fighting 109k4. work with what youve got.
 Try a fair co-alt merge, 109k4 in the DA vs any one good in a spit16 and a rope is no longer a very good idea for the 109.

[Yenny]

The spit 16 climb just almost as good as K4, and the bazooka they got really helps on a slow going straight up shot. Even in a spiral climb the K4 usually can't make seperation to get out of the rounds coming at it. From my experience, most spit pilot are kinda meh. I've ran into some good one such as saantana at TT and we'd end up doing 100 knts tnbing and even then the K4 power engine will prove it's power. As u get down slow the K4 engine is so powerful that it will out power the spit.

Most spit pilot don't really know what to do when you force them to overshot, so that's a big advantage. Some good one such as saantana and 50cals will try to reverse you and it will just become a long rolling scissor w/ whoever hold the E the best will eventually win. That's what I usually look for when Im in my K4. Drag em down to the deck doing 75-100 knts rolling around =)

[BnZs]

Of course, when one makes a t'n'b plane overshoot while flying what is normally thought of a fast boom and zoom brick, one has a runners to thank...and I'm not joking when I say this.

In a situation where a better-turning plane is diving to catch a normally faster plane, say a Spit and a 109K, if the Spit KNEW the Kurt was going dump speed and maneuver aggressively back, he'd slash his rate of closure and be prepared to maneuver to stay in the rear quarter force a turning fight the other plane probably won't win. It is this uncertainty of whether or not the fast plane is going to turn or run for it that substantially increases the probability that the t'n'b plane err on the side of too much closure and give up an overshoot and shot opportunity.

So, you're welcome Bat. 

[mechanic]

Very ture, and thanks

[Bruv119]

unless they happen to be kazaa and easily climb up with you to pop you at the top whilst watching TV over his shoulder.

He has given up the idea of modding his stick and has a full ch setup now,  he wont be able to do anything else but concentrate on the fight now 

[mechanic]

something tells me we will long for the days he used a mouse. 

[Bruv119]

I still put some of the unique flying down to him using the mouse so now its a level playing field  game on