Author Topic: PLEASE! ACTIVATE BOMBER GUNS ON GROUND  (Read 446 times)

Offline Dinger

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PLEASE! ACTIVATE BOMBER GUNS ON GROUND
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2001, 06:52:00 PM »
AK, Vulching involves planes flying and shooting stuff on the ground.  You're suggesting the best solution to vulching is to allow planes on the ground to form first-line air defenses.  Were you even around when the buff guns were enabled on the ground?  YEeee-haw, that was cool.  Tons of B17s parked ont he ground shooting at people.  Tons of people diving in to kill b17s.  Guess what, it doesn't abate vulching, it only makes it last longer and be even more absurd.
Your argument makes no sense from either a realism or a gameplay point of view.  Again, the idiocy is mind-boggling.

Offline Tac

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« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2001, 07:04:00 PM »
How many B-17 gunners ran to their B-17's to man their guns when the Japanese Zero's and Val's attacked Pearl Harbour?

Im sure its standard military doctrine to get on your bomber's guns when they on the ground the moment enemy AC attack the field... in the twilight zone.

Offline Jigster

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« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2001, 07:34:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Tac:
How many B-17 gunners ran to their B-17's to man their guns when the Japanese Zero's and Val's attacked Pearl Harbour?

Im sure its standard military doctrine to get on your bomber's guns when they on the ground the moment enemy AC attack the field... in the twilight zone.

The B-17's there were not armed at that time  

It was common practice in England to man the guns when situation called for it...

take for exampe the Roc/Skua dive bomber (or the Defiant turrented fighter) they were considered a better ground based AAA stations
then aircraft  

Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2001, 07:41:00 PM »
DejaVu you dont know what you say, bombs had little wind up propeller fuzes that only armed/exploded the bomb after a certain time dropping from the bomber. They were never set to arm after dropping 5feet. On a point of realism and logic exactly how many bomber crews immedialy wanted to drop their bombload on the ground while they were in the plane? Honestly you must really be trying to be an amazinhunk if you dont see how this is unrealistic? Are you an amazinhunk DejaVu?

Offline Dinger

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« Reply #19 on: May 02, 2001, 09:14:00 PM »
Grunherz, he's not saying it's unrealistic.  He's launching an ad hominem circumstantial attack, suppressing evidence, throwing in the straw man fallacy along with a toejamload of red herrings, that runs like this:

Some people argue against car-bombing, claiming it's unrealistic.
Those people also argue against guns on the ground, claiming it hurts gameplay.

IRL, guns could work on the ground, therefore, it is realistic that guns can work on the ground.

Thus those holding both positions are hypocrites, and the opposites should be conceded.

That is roadkill.

Straw man: those who are in favor of guns off on the ground argue for the position on grounds of gameplay alone, and those against carbombing argue realism.

roadkill.
Strong arguments can be made both from the POV of gameplay, and the POV of realism.  And I'm sorry.  Sure, bomber guns were manned during some low-level attacks on bases, but when those guys got killed, they didn't magically reappear.

ad hominem: even  if the persons holding the argument were hypocrites, it wouldn't matter.  What matters is the strength of the argument, dweeb, not the person making it.  If that were the case, I'd ignore everything ever said by any assimilationist idiot who put squadron letters at the beginning of his name.

Red herrings: this isn't a discussion about vulching. period.
this isn't about how hard it is to take down a hanger.

Finally, you're begging the question: would allowing these idiotic aberrations reduce vulching?
Hell no!  Rather, it'd prolong the festivities!  It'd be easier to kill troops, and a vulchcap would be less secure, meaning more kills for everyone, and less air combat.

Offline Tac

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« Reply #20 on: May 02, 2001, 09:28:00 PM »
"It was common practice in England to man the guns when situation called for it"

You GOTTA be kidding me.

Offline Dowding

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« Reply #21 on: May 03, 2001, 05:30:00 AM »
 
Quote
It was common practice in England to man the guns when situation called for it

Bollocks. They would head for the nearest shelter as soon as the air raid siren was sounded.

What use would .303s be compared to the large bore AAA?

War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline gatt

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« Reply #22 on: May 03, 2001, 08:33:00 AM »
TAC,
LOL, I agree   BTW, bombing/gunning while taxiing is the mother of all BS. Good troll.

[This message has been edited by gatt (edited 05-03-2001).]
"And one of the finest aircraft I ever flew was the Macchi C.205. Oh, beautiful. And here you had the perfect combination of italian styling and german engineering .... it really was a delight to fly ... and we did tests on it and were most impressed." - Captain Eric Brown

AG Sachsenberg

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PLEASE! ACTIVATE BOMBER GUNS ON GROUND
« Reply #23 on: May 03, 2001, 08:54:00 AM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Tac:
"It was common practice in England to man the guns when situation called for it"

You GOTTA be kidding me.

No one said anything about no stinking Tigers.  

Sorry first thing when a field was under atack pilots and crews did not run to man their bomber guns, they ran for a shelter.  Whoever thought this thread up, please read a book on "Holy toejam those are fighters, man the guns IN THE BOMBERS"  

------------------
 

Verkaaft's mei Gwand `I foahr in himmel!
Sell my clothes I am going to Heaven!

[This message has been edited by AG Sachsenberg (edited 05-03-2001).]

Offline AKDejaVu

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PLEASE! ACTIVATE BOMBER GUNS ON GROUND
« Reply #24 on: May 03, 2001, 10:30:00 AM »
Dinger,

Its not roadkill.  Its not for the sake of gameplay.

The only reason to disable bombs on the ground is to make it easier for someone to drive an M-3 up to the bunker, in plain view, and unload his troops.... PERIOD.  To use realism as a defense for making this possible is hypocrytical.

The means to disable guns and bombs at a field are already available (hangars for guns and bunkers for bombs).  Anyone arguing for the bomb issue is really only trying to make things easier for themselves.  Ammo bunkers don't take squat to down... and they stay down for 30 minutes.  The game itself alots for the prevention of either tactics.. its the players that don't seem to understand that.

So, argue for realism when it suits your preferences... or argue for gameplay when it suits your preferences.  Just don't forget that you are flip-flopping because it suits your needs.

AKDejaVu

Offline Jigster

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« Reply #25 on: May 03, 2001, 11:16:00 AM »
Notice the seperation? Good little boys.  

That was a reference to the Skua and Defiant, in context that they were not the norm all throughout England, but with those particular planes that was common place.

Just how many deep pen strafing runs did the LW make on US aerodromes after the BoB? Discounting the rather rare Ju88 low level raids...

silly silly people.

Offline Dinger

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« Reply #26 on: May 03, 2001, 06:38:00 PM »
Now you're just nugatory, AKD.  Your position is already refuted, and you just restate it as if it were a counter argument.

Offline Toad

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« Reply #27 on: May 03, 2001, 09:06:00 PM »
Hi Yo Sil-l-l-l-v-v-v-e-e-e-e-r-r-r-r-!

Selective Realism Rides Again!

 

"I want 100% TOTAL REALISM!!!!"

("Except of course for this ONE thing!")

("Well, and ONE OTHER thing, too!")

("And we can't forget THIS, either.")

 
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Cobra

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PLEASE! ACTIVATE BOMBER GUNS ON GROUND
« Reply #28 on: May 04, 2001, 08:20:00 AM »
I dunno guys, if we didn't already have the ability to stop it ourselves by taking down the hangars and the ordinance, I would say you have a point, but.........

Since we do have the ability, even with MG's to take down ammo bunkers, there by rendering bombs inoperable at that field, then I guess we have the tools at hand to stop it ourselves.  It seems HT already provided us with the means to stop Car-Bombing.  My only question is this.......Why aren't we using those means??

I think Car-Bombing sucks as much as anyone, but we do already possess the capability to stop it ourselves.

Cobra