P-47-D11

[Krusty]

I'm pretty sure it already can.

Those 190As are really abyssmal in their climb rates....

[Rebel]

I'd love paddle props on Jugs. Apparently, a P47 with paddle props and WEP going it could match a 109 in a climb.

At high alt.  Not at low alt   That has been the source of many a teeth gnashing.

Even now, without it's paddle blade or MP upgrade (both of which are verifiable field mods, btw), the D-11 itself starts to outclimb the 109G6 starting somewhere between 25 and 30K- I think it's 27K.  

[macerxgp]

At high alt.  Not at low alt   That has been the source of many a teeth gnashing.

Even now, without it's paddle blade or MP upgrade (both of which are verifiable field mods, btw), the D-11 itself starts to outclimb the 109G6 starting somewhere between 25 and 30K- I think it's 27K.  

Who the hell even flys anything that high outside a MoM mission!? (Not an invitation to tell me you do, guys) IMHO, that statistic is irrelevant. The 109's loose performance at that alt due to their superchargers, not their props.

[Rebel]

Who the hell even flys anything that high outside a MoM mission!? (Not an invitation to tell me you do, guys) IMHO, that statistic is irrelevant. The 109's loose performance at that alt due to their superchargers, not their props.

Irrelevant?  Dude, the 47 is a total beast up there.  NOTHING comes close to it.    In FSO's, scenarios, and the like (not to mention Combat Tour when it was still being worked on), that's it's playground.

The 109's props weren't called into question.  The 47 D-11 doesn't have one, nor does it have a MP boost available like it should, simply because everything is modeled as "factory stock". 

Adding these two things to the D-11 will make it accelerate faster, climb better overall (making it even more dominant up high), and give it even more of a speed advantage. 

I don't think the designers at Republic had Aces High gameplay in mind when they were designing their machine to kill Germans at high altitude  

[BnZs]

Re-fitting with paddle blades was standard, so it should be available for razorbacks too by late-war.

Higher boost mods were common to the point of being nigh ubiquitous, but because still should be lightly perked IMO.

[Rebel]

Re-fitting with paddle blades was standard, so it should be available for razorbacks too by late-war.

Higher boost mods were common to the point of being nigh ubiquitous, but because still should be lightly perked IMO.

Eh, you could make an argument for a light perk for the 150 fuel (with a small perk to each barrel- i.e. a 25% load would be less then a 100% load), the paddle prop, and the aftermarket turbocharger mods.

As the standard is "factory stock" anything above and beyond that which is made available should be perkable.  I like the idea of a 150 octane paddle bladed super-turbocharged Jug storming into a furball, though.  


Not only that, but the perkies give this new super jug reason to be careful. 

[ALLEN86]

the p47 was also fitted to carry 4000lbs of bomb ords later in the war. perhaps a double under the fuselage and one one each wing?

[B4Buster]

I'd love paddle props on Jugs. Apparently, a P47 with paddle props and WEP going it could match a 109 in a climb.

read an excerpt in a book from a pilot who had a mock dogfight with a spit 8 I belive it was. He said the spit was on his 6, so he pulled up in a zoom climb and easily pulled away from the spit.

[BnZs]

read an excerpt in a book from a pilot who had a mock dogfight with a spit 8 I belive it was. He said the spit was on his 6, so he pulled up in a zoom climb and easily pulled away from the spit.

Well, no. What Robert Johnson said was that the Spit9b he was mock dogfighting could "shoot past him" in a steady climb, but when he dove the Spit lost ground, and when he zoomed the Spit lost even more ground *until* they were both back to their steady climb speed, at which point the Spit began rapidly gaining again. He also found the Spit much inferior in rolling.

IIRC, basically what he did was do a high-speed zoom against a Spit, hammerhead, and come down straight at his canopy with the 8 machine guns all pointing at him. This is all well and good, and will work in AHII, except that most AHII pile-its, and I mean 90% of them, will pull up for a retarded M.A.D. HO pass with you if they have any speed left for vertical maneuvering at all.

[bj229r]

At any rate, paddle prop not much help at 5k where all the fights are....could it even be a hindrance?

[BnZs]

At any rate, paddle prop not much help at 5k where all the fights are....could it even be a hindrance?

Nah, it will improve thrust at low IAS at any alt. I think the prop difference is the main reason the D-11 climbs slower than D-25 despite being the lightest Jug in the bunch.

[B4Buster]

Well, no. What Robert Johnson said was that the Spit9b he was mock dogfighting could "shoot past him" in a steady

You're right it was a Spit 9, not 8, but I didn't say anything about a steady climb, I did say zoom 

He said the spit was on his 6, so he pulled up in a zoom climb and easily pulled away from the spit.

Quoted from Robert S. Johnson:

"...We (the Spit 9B) flew togeather in formation, and then I decided to see just what this airplane had to is credit....I opened the throttle full and the Thunderbolt forged ahead. A moment later exhaust smoke poured from the Spit as the pilot came after me. He couldn't make it; the big Jug had a definate speed advantage. I grinned happily; I'd heard so much about this airplane that I really wanted to show the Thunderbolt to her pilot. The Jug kept pulling away from the Spitfire; suddenly I hauled back on the stick and lifted the nose. The Thunderbolt zoomed upward, soaring into the cloud-flecked sky. I looked out and back; the Spit was straining to match me, and barely able to hold his position..."

Keep in mind he wrote this before his plane was retrofitted with a paddle prop and a water injected engine. He went up against a Spit9B with these modifications again and there was no contest.

You definately know your stuff though BnZs

[BnZs]

Buster,
FWIW, I agree that Johnson's account definitely depicts the Jug stacking up better against the Spit9 than is the typical case in AHII, albeit it is only one case with many unknown variables. As a general principle though, I'd say better mass/drag ratio/zoom climb does not *seem* to stack up well against higher power/weight in a Co-E state in-game.

[macerxgp]

When I said that that statistic is irrelevant, I meant that it was an uneven comparison between the two aircraft because they weren't at similar performance levels at that altitudes. If I say that one plane out-climbs another, than that means that when they are at a level where performance degradation is NOT a factor, one plane will climb faster than the other. Meaning; a clean 109G6 and a clean P-47-D11 are traveling at 325 mph @ 15K altitude. They both nose up the same amount. Which one will climb faster/higher than the other? THAT is what I'm talking about.

[B4Buster]

With the paddle prop Johnson said no 190 or 109 ever outclimbed him again max