Make Lanc and Buff guns tougher

[Guinness]

I think turret guns should do more damage, making us attack in pairs or more, not 1 interceptor.

Plus i think i will stand up for buffs for once, everyone whinging about them lately  

[popeye]

INCOMING!!!

 

[Sky Viper]

Originally posted by popeye:
INCOMING!!!

 

NO DOUBT!

I am HUGELY, Enormously, extremely, unabashedly, OPPOSED to increasing Buff gun strength!

I can't get anywhere near a buff without getting dead.
And trust me, I have tried EVERY approach.
Even the bb guns in the TBM/Ju88 rip hunks of plane off at 700 yds!!!

On the other hand, if I'm driving a buff, I can score 200-300 hits on an attacker and not kill him.

I would like to know why though!

Viper
"Sept. 11, 2001...a booster shot in the arm of American Patriotism!"
 

[Russian]

I think Sky Viper need a few lessons on attacking buffs.


 

[oki]

hehe  Sky your shootin must sux more than mine, cuz evenski i can keel a bufferoon and land my crippled birdie.

BTW , GREAT PIC !  <S>

[ 09-14-2001: Message edited by: oki ]

[Sky Viper]

Make no mistake, my shooting don't suck! My Front End tells me that I am getting hundreds and hundreds of hits! Both as a gunner and a fighter!

The problem is that despite getting hundreds of hits, they are apparently not registering on the server, or on my opponent's FE.

What is worse, when I attack a buff, I often get killed while I am still 1k out.


As for correct attack posture, my knowlege/experience is this:  Lancaster is best hit from the low front quarters (10&2),  B17 High Fast bounce (again 10&2) and force the gunner to jump turrets as you pass, Ju88/TBM/Il2 anything forward of the wings, but not HO, B26 from the low front quarters between 9&10 or 2&3.

My best results come from in an arc dive from 3k above and strafing through at 400 mph or more.

[Don]

SkyViper:
The only success I have when killing buffs is when they aren't shooting  
I have also been a gunner in a Buff and have had to shoot many rounds at an attacking a/c and score hits only to get shot down by the nme a/c.
Something is wrong and ought to be fixed.
Getting hits scored against me by a lone gunner on a buff from 1k is no new news, it happens all the time. I too have tried all approaches (prolly except the right one) without much success. From where I sit, there is nothing the Buff guns need, rather the buff's need to be looked at in general IMO.

[ 09-17-2001: Message edited by: Don ]

[Blue Mako]

Simple solution for all:  Learn how to shoot.

Fighters can kill buffs easily with the right tactics.  A buff gunner can kill any fighter that offers him a shot due to the increased hitting power of buff guns.  The key though is half-decent markmanship.  Go offline or into the TA and practice your shooting.  It will do wonders.

Live with it.  Enjoy the game.  Quit whining.

[Maverick]

I can support tougher buff guns on only one condition.

The buffs are limited to 15k MAX and anyhing over a 4G maneuver pops the wings unloaded with a 3G max loaded.

No more high alt dogfighting buffs!  <evil grin>

<GDR>  

Mav

[Urchin]

Originally posted by Blue Mako:
Simple solution for all:  Learn how to shoot.

Buffs can kill fighters easily with the right tactics.  A buff gunner can kill any fighter that offers him a shot due to the increased hitting power of buff guns.  The key though is half-decent markmanship.  Go offline or into the TA and practice your shooting.  It will do wonders.

Live with it.  Enjoy the game.  Quit whining.

Not sure that "learning how to shoot" is the issue here.  The issue is 1v1 a bomber has a huge advantage that it did not have in real life.

[Karnak]

Originally posted by Urchin:
The issue is 1v1 a bomber has a huge advantage that it did not have in real life.

ROTFLOL!!!!

Has an advantage 1 vs 1.  What do you do in the bomber to achieve that, Urchin?

Bombers are sitting ducks and ripe for any well planned attack.  Do they sometimes get you even so? Yes.  But the vast majority of times the bomber loses the fight.

Bomber results from Tour 19:

The B-17G has 4648 kills and has been killed 6511 times.
The B-26B has 3304 kills and has been killed 5270 times.
The Lancaster III has 2016 kills and has been killed 5093 times.
The Il-2 has 1881 kills and has been killed 3197 times.
The TBM-3 has 533 kills and has been killed 2937 times.
The Ju 88 has 428 kills and has been killed 1711 times.
The Ar 234 has 31 kills and has been killed 110 times.

Boy, it sure looks like those bombers have the advantage.  Look at those awesome K/D ratios.

Before you insist that "car-bombing" has artificially lowered their K/D ratio I want you to consider that all the silly people attacking straight up the bomber's 6 o'clock positions has artificially inflated those numbers as well. The vast majority of attacks on my bombers have come from the dead 6.  I fly at 10,000ft-20,000ft, so no strato buff excuses either.

Guinness,

According to what I've read, the tail gun on the Lanc had a 30 second life expectancy once the Lanc was under fire from the 6 position.  The turret should be vulnerable.

Other bombers do lose turrets as well.  I landed a B-17 that was missing its top, tail and ball turrets as well as both aelirons and one engine.

[Alpo]

Originally posted by Karnak:


I want you to consider that all the silly people attacking straight up the bomber's 6 o'clock positions has artificially inflated those numbers as well. The vast majority of attacks on my bombers have come from the dead 6.  I fly at 10,000ft-20,000ft, so no strato buff excuses either.

    HUSH Karnak!  You go edukatin these people and I'll never get anuther kill in my buff!!  

[DingHao2]

In this situation, the unperking of the Ta-152 H-1 would do wonders: it's the plane for attacking buffs.  It lacks the maneuverability to be an effective fighter vs. fighter plane, but it will do great vs. high alt buffs.  And the buff drivers will have to fly in formations, as they did historically (though it's up to your discretion).  And don't change the buff gun modelling.

[Urchin]

Has an advantage 1 vs 1. What do you do in the bomber to achieve that, Urchin?

 

Not sure, but in reply to your K/D example I'll give you my K/D in the B17 and even the B26 for the past few months.  

Tour 15 : First month I started playing.
urchin has 4 kills and has been killed 6 times in the B-17G.
urchin has 2 kills and has been killed 4 times in the B-26B.
urchin has 7 kills and has been killed 3 times in the Lancaster III.

Tour 16:
urchin has 65 kills and has been killed 64 times in the B-17G.
urchin has 7 kills and has been killed 9 times in the B-26B.
urchin has 3 kills and has been killed 8 times in the Lancaster III.

Tour 17:
urchin has 20 kills and has been killed 13 times in the B-17G
urchin has 4 kills and has been killed 6 times in the B-26B.
urchin has 4 kills and has been killed 13 times in the Lancaster III.

Tour 18:
urchin has 36 kills and has been killed 15 times in the B-17G.
urchin has 15 kills and has been killed 11 times in the B-26B.
urchin has 0 kills and has been killed 3 times in the Lancaster III.

Tour 19:
urchin has 15 kills and has been killed 2 times in the B-17G.
urchin has 8 kills and has been killed 4 times in the B-26B.
urchin has 8 kills and has been killed 1 time in the Lancaster III.

Tour 20:
urchin has 13 kills and has been killed 2 times in the B-17G.
urchin has 2 kills and has been killed 2 times in the B-26B.

Anyway, you notice anything there?  I've had a losing record in the B17 exactly one tour, which was the very first month I started playing.  I tend to die in the Lanc because I actually WANT people to come intercept me, so I fly low on the way home, and I almost never get above 20k in any buff.  In B26s I fly like a maniac, I generally fly that plane like it is a big fighter.  

Anyway, if you guys are getting losing records in buffs it is YOUR fault, it isnt because the buff doesn't have an advantage.

[Karnak]

Urchin,

If you eliminate the suckers who attacked you straight up your 6 from your numbers, would you still have a positive K/D?

I also usually have a positive K/D in bombers, but that is only because of the guys who feed themselves to my tail guns.