Author Topic: is this "cheating"?  (Read 4767 times)

Offline Fugita

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Re: is this "cheating"?
« Reply #15 on: December 26, 2008, 02:15:15 PM »
I'm not a big fan of gaming the game. In fact most of the time I have engine sounds up so loud I can't hear my squaddies. I never calibrate my joystick. And I usually turn my monitor off. I don't want to be accused of trying to gain an advantage on anyone :D

Offline Messiah

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Re: is this "cheating"?
« Reply #16 on: December 26, 2008, 02:17:11 PM »
reported for cheating
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Offline Kazaa

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Re: is this "cheating"?
« Reply #17 on: December 26, 2008, 02:36:09 PM »
reported for cheating

reported for trolling.



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Offline dedalos

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Re: is this "cheating"?
« Reply #18 on: December 26, 2008, 02:38:01 PM »
I have learned, to set my cursor, on piper hit H-key freezing the cursor, then I set my views as high as I can, and I know with out question that my cursor, is now my piper, it has helped a little with my aim, but only marginally.

what is your opinion of this? did you realize this was possible? or am I finding out about something that every one knows?

I  thought about it one day and was thinking if no one else knows about this I may be a "cheater" and seriously, I hate "cheaters" to me they are the same as Liars and thief's, so I feel obligated to put it out there to let every one know about it,to use or lose it, to condone or condemn me.

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Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: is this "cheating"?
« Reply #19 on: December 26, 2008, 03:11:50 PM »
It's not cheating, but using anything other than the gunsight for an aiming point is a gamey.
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Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: is this "cheating"?
« Reply #20 on: December 26, 2008, 03:15:33 PM »
Cheating? No. Gaming the game? Definitely.
Just like turning down your engine sounds in a GV to hear others isn't cheating- but it most certainly is gaming the game.
Just like turning down your graphic settings in a GV to see through the landscape wasn't cheating- but it was gaming the game.

Just because it's not necessarily cheating doesn't mean it's not pretty gay.

One difference is that turning down engine sounds or reducing visual detail is something you can do in any aircraft or vehicle, whereas that is not true for the over-the-nose-view-cursor-gunsight.
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Offline ink

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Re: is this "cheating"?
« Reply #21 on: December 26, 2008, 03:45:30 PM »
I'm not a big fan of gaming the game. In fact most of the time I have engine sounds up so loud I can't hear my squaddies. I never calibrate my joystick. And I usually turn my monitor off. I don't want to be accused of trying to gain an advantage on anyone :D


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Offline SunBat

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Re: is this "cheating"?
« Reply #22 on: December 26, 2008, 03:46:08 PM »
One difference is that turning down engine sounds or reducing visual detail is something you can do in any aircraft or vehicle, whereas that is not true for the over-the-nose-view-cursor-gunsight.

That's because in some airplanes you could sit up higher and see over the nose and in others you couldn't IRL.  Since some planes had this innate advantage while others didn't it should be modeled in the game to maintain the various plane's relative advantages and disadvantages.  For example, you can see way over the extremely short nose of a 110 but you cannot see over the extremely long nose of an F4U, no matter how high you sit - this has been modeled and rightly so.  

Because a flight sim is an imperfect environment (especially related to views) there are some less-realistic things that sometimes are done to actually help maintain the balance of the plane set.  I say set that cursor and take advantage of your over-the-nose view to capture the advantage that the real pilot had.

What I am trying to say, is that it all balances out and is less gamey than it seems, imho.
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Offline ImADot

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Re: is this "cheating"?
« Reply #23 on: December 26, 2008, 04:07:55 PM »
Before you do anything in the game take a moment and think if it would be possible to be done by a real pilot in real life.  If yes, even if it was painful, uncomfortable or what ever, then have at it

For crying-out-loud guys, it's a game.  Every game has its idiosyncrasies, and things happen (or can be done) that just don't happen in real life.  It's just not possible to completely simulate "real life" on a home computer no matter how hard you try or how much you want to.  So, some people make a conscious effort to insert their own limitations in game-play to make up for some of that lost realism - more power to them if that's how they want to play.  I say, just play the game and have fun...if you're taking it too serious, then it's probably time to give it up and do something else.
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Offline TUK

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Re: is this "cheating"?
« Reply #24 on: December 26, 2008, 04:27:09 PM »
Hey ink , I use the cursor trick all the time..  Doesnt work well with some planes however.  Wirbles work well with it...  Actually, miss the old niki cockpit, was great for cursor trick...:(..  :rock
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Offline Kweassa

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Re: is this "cheating"?
« Reply #25 on: December 26, 2008, 04:42:39 PM »
Quote
That's because in some airplanes you could sit up higher and see over the nose and in others you couldn't IRL.  Since some planes had this innate advantage while others didn't it should be modeled in the game to maintain the various plane's relative advantages and disadvantages.  For example, you can see way over the extremely short nose of a 110 but you cannot see over the extremely long nose of an F4U, no matter how high you sit - this has been modeled and rightly so.

Except in reality, if you adjust your seat up high, you'd also adjust the gunsight reticle to be centered accordingly. Effectively, in the virtual world of AH every pilot has already 'adjusted' his seat - which is where the center of focus is set as in the default screen.

Thus, moving the head position up is literally "moving the head up". Conceptually it has nothing to do with individual advantages/disadvantages between the planes in how far one can see over the nose, but rather how much headroom is available in the cockpit, and how much neck/back/torso movement is allowed for the virutal pilot in the cockpit. In the older version planes these restrictions were very lenient, so far as to in some cases the pilot's cranium might be sticking above the cockpit glass. In the more recent game versions and plane models, the restrictions are far more strict.


Quote
Because a flight sim is an imperfect environment (especially related to views) there are some less-realistic things that sometimes are done to actually help maintain the balance of the plane set.  I say set that cursor and take advantage of your over-the-nose view to capture the advantage that the real pilot had.

The comfy cozy computer room chair, and the thumb-controlled hat switch flippin' (or, in recent cases neck wriggling with Track/ir) to move views around at physically impossible/improbable situations devoid of human anatomical constraints or G-force constraints is already overcompensates for any 'imperfect environment' in the first place.

Also, the so called 'real-life advantage' as mentioned would hardly - if ever - have actually taken place in real life. A pilot may squirm around to peer around the nose for a glimpse (that is, if only the plane isn't already generating enough G-forces during maneuvering) of the enemy, but you can bet your money on that  he will return to his normal seated position when he is ready to pull the trigger.


Quote
What I am trying to say, is that it all balances out and is less gamey than it seems, imho.

No it isn't. It's a gamey thing which has nothing to do with 'reality issues' at all.

It's allowed in the game as long as AH doesn't go so far as to implement some kind of "pilot action physics" system which might mimic realistic constraints of pilot movement under stress of real life forces and pressures according to plane maneuvering. However, hypothetically speaking, if AH ever implements such a system then you can bet the 'peering over the nose and spontaneously aiming at the target with an uncentered reticle view, while pulling a turn so hard enough to necessiate such action in the first place' definately won't be seen in the game.

Until then, people may use it freely - but that don't change the fact that it's pure gaming the game.

Offline Gwjr2

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Re: is this "cheating"?
« Reply #26 on: December 26, 2008, 04:43:36 PM »
So for all the "game the gamers" the Huey guys that put a grease mark on windshield in Nam for guns/rocks (because the flip out sight was garbage) were gaming the game....... :uhoh  
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Offline Kweassa

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Re: is this "cheating"?
« Reply #27 on: December 26, 2008, 04:52:39 PM »
Quote
For crying-out-loud guys, it's a game.  Every game has its idiosyncrasies, and things happen (or can be done) that just don't happen in real life.  It's just not possible to completely simulate "real life" on a home computer no matter how hard you try or how much you want to.  So, some people make a conscious effort to insert their own limitations in game-play to make up for some of that lost realism - more power to them if that's how they want to play.  I say, just play the game and have fun...if you're taking it too serious, then it's probably time to give it up and do something else.

It'd be impossible to - let's say - simulate maybe the death and fear factor. Or perhaps how a dynamical atmospherical conditions would effect the plane every moment in minor detail. Certainly a game would never would have to be required to model in a highly convincing fluid-dynamic model of turbulence to enjoy.

However, AH takes pride in the fact that it is one of the most realistical aerial combat simulation games. Looking over a gamey exploit with 'being just a game' as an excuse is practically the same thing as leaving a known and proven 'FM error' intact. I am quite certain that if there is a proved case of a plane FM being incorrect, people are going to ask for a fix.

The only reason such exploits are still in the game, is because it alone does not decidedly effect the outcome of the fight, and coming up with a completely satisfying aerial combat simulation with such small numbers of people in development is an unreasonable thing to expect.

In other words, it is a mere compromise asking for the tolerance of the gamers. That doesn't mean that "being just a game" may excuse its existence.

Offline SunBat

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Re: is this "cheating"?
« Reply #28 on: December 26, 2008, 05:18:17 PM »
Quote
Except in reality, if you adjust your seat up high, you'd also adjust the gunsight reticle to be centered accordingly. Effectively, in the virtual world of AH every pilot has already 'adjusted' his seat - which is where the center of focus is set as in the default screen.

Thus, moving the head position up is literally "moving the head up". Conceptually it has nothing to do with individual advantages/disadvantages between the planes in how far one can see over the nose, but rather how much headroom is available in the cockpit, and how much neck/back/torso movement is allowed for the virutal pilot in the cockpit. In the older version planes these restrictions were very lenient, so far as to in some cases the pilot's cranium might be sticking above the cockpit glass. In the more recent game versions and plane models, the restrictions are far more strict.

Goodness.

Quote
The comfy cozy computer room chair, and the thumb-controlled hat switch flippin' (or, in recent cases neck wriggling with Track/ir) to move views around at physically impossible/improbable situations devoid of human anatomical constraints or G-force constraints is already overcompensates for any 'imperfect environment' in the first place.

Also, the so called 'real-life advantage' as mentioned would hardly - if ever - have actually taken place in real life. A pilot may squirm around to peer around the nose for a glimpse (that is, if only the plane isn't already generating enough G-forces during maneuvering) of the enemy, but you can bet your money on that  he will return to his normal seated position when he is ready to pull the trigger.

Goodness.

Quote
No it isn't. It's a gamey thing which has nothing to do with 'reality issues' at all.

It's allowed in the game as long as AH doesn't go so far as to implement some kind of "pilot action physics" system which might mimic realistic constraints of pilot movement under stress of real life forces and pressures according to plane maneuvering. However, hypothetically speaking, if AH ever implements such a system then you can bet the 'peering over the nose and spontaneously aiming at the target with an uncentered reticle view, while pulling a turn so hard enough to necessiate such action in the first place' definately won't be seen in the game.

Until then, people may use it freely - but that don't change the fact that it's pure gaming the game.

My goodness.   :D

I figured that the literalist would not understand what I was getting at, which is simply that some planes have better inherent views from the cockpit for different situations than others in real life.  The flavor of what I was trying to say is to take advantage of that b/c the game offers that advantage in how you set up your views.  It is a game, the game aspects of the game balance out to make the planes match up to each other better the way they did in real life.  A game will never be like real life but if you use the various aspects of the game that are offered, the resultant effect is that the planes relate to each other a little better.  Then again, maybe not. 


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Offline Morpheus

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Re: is this "cheating"?
« Reply #29 on: December 26, 2008, 05:48:59 PM »
yes...

take his stick away and hang him by his toe nails
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