Cherry Picker

[Zazen13]

I didn't denounce anything but using history as a justification.  And Zaz, we're all useless in the overall scheme of things cause the game is just that.  Think of all the time we've wasted over the years!

Again, you need me down there low drawing fire for you to fly your game.  I don't need you up there for me to fly mine

I have no problems getting down and dirty if the situation is appropriate, but I'm always open to picking the living crap out of someone if they have their pants down around their ankles...No qualms about it whatsoever. In fact, I would feel re-miss if I did not take the opportunity to "educate" those demonstrating such poor SA. Only in this way can we gradually increase over time the imbued wisdom and skill quotient of the average player...

[Ack-Ack]

Ok, there's my answer!  Cherry-Picker originates in AH itself.  I wonder who has the honor of starting the causal chain of "picker!" cries that dominate 200 today?

It was a term that was used in AW and didn't originate in AH.

ack-ack

[Oldman731]

I have no problems getting down and dirty if the situation is appropriate, but I'm always open to picking the living crap out of someone if they have their pants down around their ankles...No qualms about it whatsoever. In fact, I would feel re-miss if I did not take the opportunity to "educate" those demonstrating such poor SA. Only in this way can we gradually increase over time the imbued wisdom and skill quotient of the average player...

Why is it that I doubt you are doing this for the betterment of your fellow player?

The essence of picking is that you're sneaking up on someone and shooting him before he can fight back.  If your goal in the game is to amass kills or points, fine, one kill is the same as another.  But the notion that this demonstrates a pure form of air combat skill just doesn't fly (as it were).  The only skill is in the sneak-and-escape, not in the fighting itself.

There's no law against picking, of course, and there are probably people who envision themselves as heroic WWII aces as they dive in for the pick.  But the thread started out as a "how come this is a bad thing?" question, and the answer, near as I can tell, is that people make fun of pickers because the pick doesn't show anything but an ability to surprise someone who is actually engaged in a fight with someone else. 

- oldman

[1pLUs44]

(Image removed from quote.)

No! you beat me! 

Nice one

[StokesAk]

picking isnt bad the only reason you can kill people is cause of no checks and horrible SA witch has alredy been stated. Also it is very simple to kill a picker just reverse 'em. 

[Anaxogoras]

But the thread started out as a "how come this is a bad thing?"

Not quite.

So far as I can remember, the epithets "cherry picker" and "pick" were not used in Warbirds years ago.  The only thing comparable were common phrases like "bad SA," or "clearing a friendly."

Is it an AW term?  Where did it come from?  Has it always been part of the AH lexicon?

The question was about the origin of the term "cherry picker."  It was a "when" question, not a "why" question. I'm very clear on why some consider it bad.

[Hungry]

When I first started AW FR (Mims) there were two guys that really stand out in my memory, HR he could turn with the best of them and Zazen who would club you like a baby seal the minute you took your eyes off him.

I highly respected both because both took a great amount of skill in their style in my opinion.  If HR got me I looked to improve my turn abililty if Zazen got me it meant my SA needed improvement.  The attitude here is very similar to one going on about how to use ( or whose rules to follow) in the AVA. Either style makes me a better.  

I take full responsibility for when I die in my plane.  This is a multi plane enviornment get used to it and fly the way you want period.  

[DarkglamJG52]

'Casey Jones' sounds better what  'cherry picker'.

http://sabre-pilots.org/classics/v32casey.htm
http://www.acepilots.com/korea/winton.html

[Rebel]

I don't pick cherries, I clear sixes. 

I leave all that fancy dogfightin' stuff to the guys who know how to do it good n' proper 

[Bronk]

Strange how pickers don't want to be called it.  You don't see furballers starting threads why they are being called such? It's what they are. It is what they do.

PICK
the act of choosing or selecting; choice; selection: to take one's pick.

If you fly around looking for ac already tied up in a fight you are a "picker", by definition.

I return you now to "As the pickers spin.".

[Hungry]

Strange how pickers don't want to be called it.  You don't see furballers starting threads why they are being called such? It's what they are. It is what they do.

PICK
the act of choosing or selecting; choice; selection: to take one's pick.

If you fly around looking for ac already tied up in a fight you are a "picker", by definition.

I return you now to "As the pickers spin.".

And Bronk lifted up his mighty voice and spoke through the clouds, Do as I sayeth or I will label you a picker unto mankind

[VonMessa]

What is the line between what is a pick and what is not?  (since we are answering questions)

If the target goes evasive (in any form whatsoever) is it still a pick (since he is aware of your presence) ?

If the target is getting "check 6's"   from countrymen or squadmates, but ignoring them, is it still a pick?

I would think that the very moment that a target realizes that he has been chosen (as a target) whether by warning from a countryman, a squadmate, your tracers, or the little hairs on the back of his neck standing up, it can no longer by the very definition of the term, be a pick.

I would wager that 90% of the guys that complain about being picked, know they are being shadowed and don't care, or think they can get away with staying engaged.

I have seen, on multiple occasions, where there is some guy getting ganged by 3-4 friendlies, while at the same time, another red guy is coming to help his buddy.  You can warn the  pack of wolves 100 times and it won't matter.  

 e.g.   "Hey, all 5 of you on that Zeke, you have a Pony coming down"   meanwhile, all 5 guys on the Zeke have their faces plastered to the windshield and ignore the warnings thinking they will be the one to score the lethal hit.

But...  here comes Mr. Pony, and in one pass, wastes 2 of the bandits on his Zeke buddy.   Oh the whines you will hear about how they "were picked"


So..  who is the worse offender in that situation?  The guy picking, or the ones getting picked because of their ignorance?

I guess what I'm saying is that it is all relative.  

I do not fly anything besides German Iron (or very rarely, a Macchi) in the MA, you will not see me in too many turn fights.  Sure I could up a 109 F or G, but the fact is, in the MA I will probably get picked, depending on the situation.

Again, relativity........

If you are in a 1v1, maybe it's different, but in a furball type situation, you should be looking over your shoulder every 3-5 seconds, plain and simple.

There are other enemy planes around and they could possibly shoot at you, just like the coffee at McDonalds is HOT and could BURN you.  

I always fly in the MA with the possibility of my being picked in the back of my head.

People should always realize that it is a possibility and be prepared for it.  If it means disengaging from your kill and not bagging it....
BOO HOO.   Look around once in a while and don't be so greedy.  If you enter an engagement expecting to be picked (if you find it happening to you a  lot, you should start expecting it), it might not happen as often.

[Anaxogoras]

Strange how pickers don't want to be called it.

I wear the title with pride!

Cherry picking is also a description of selection-bias, i.e. ignoring evidence that doesn't support a proposition while presenting the evidence that does.

[Rebel]

Okay okay, something I just thought of. 

Situation:

You get in a fight with one of my friends.   More and more it looks like you're getting the better of him, and soon his fighter will be a burning hulk heading for terra firma. 

The new dicta is that I let you kill him, acheive maneuvering speed and only then I can attack? 

Sorry, Gracie.  Say goodnight.

[Bronk]

I wear the title with pride!

Cherry picking is also a description of selection-bias, i.e. ignoring evidence that doesn't support a proposition while presenting the evidence that does.

Good man.. and you should...if that is what you enjoy doing.